My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with semi-retired attorney and crime writer, James Polkinghorn.

Check out our discussion of Liquid Shades of Blue. And a little about the practice of law.

Show notes are coming soon!

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with award-winning crime writer Victoria Selman.

And, yes, we do have a brief discussion of Doctor Who! :) And Guy Fawkes!

You can download a copy of the transcript here.


Debbi (00:12): Hi everyone. My guest today is the Sunday Times and Amazon number one bestselling author of five thrillers, including her popular Ziba MacKenzie series. Her novel Truly Darkly Deeply was shortlisted for the Fingerprint Thriller of the Year Award and longlisted for the Theakston's Crime Novel of the Year Award, and was a Richard and Judy Book Club Pick. It has also been optioned by See Saw Films. In addition, she's been shortlisted for two CWA Dagger Awards, has written for the Independent, and hosts a popular podcast called On the Sofa with Victoria on Crime Time FM. It's my great pleasure to have with me today, Victoria Sellman.
(01:50): Hi Victoria. How are you doing?
Victoria (01:51): I'm good. It's my great pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Debbi (01:55): I am very pleased to have you on. I was going to say you're in London and what's the vibe like in London these days?
Victoria (02:06): Well, the vibe in London today is very noisy. I dunno if you can hear the children outside my window, but it's Halloween, so we may be interrupted by some doorbell ringing and some dog barking as the kids come.
Debbi (02:18): Oh, that's right. It's tonight where you are.
Victoria (02:18): We're busy on the streets tonight.
Debbi (02:22): Good heavens. Oh my goodness. Perhaps goblins will come visit us. I don't know. In any case, have you always wanted to write thrillers?
Victoria (02:33): I've always wanted to write, so when I was from a very young age, I'm sure the same with you, I was always an avid reader growing up, and I think when you love to read, at some point you're going to want to write as well. You want to have a go, and it was a dream. From the age of seven, I wrote my first inverted commas novel on two sides of A4 paper. It was a very great achievement, which my parents went and lost. Otherwise, I'm sure it would've been a fabulous bestseller, but it was fun. That was on my bedroom floor one summer I wrote that.
No, I've always wanted to write, but as is so often, I think as a writer, it was a long time coming, so life got in the way. I left university, I got a job, I got married, I had children. And it wasn't until I was in my gosh, I'm trying to think, my late thirties, I guess, that I started properly going for it and I haven't looked back. I've loved every minute, even the downs as well as the ups because of course publishing is a journey of peaks and troughs, and I think the biggest takeout is you just have to keep riding those waves and believing in yourself and keeping going. But it's a rollercoaster and it's a fun ride and I've loved it.
Debbi (03:54): It truly is. Yeah, it is a great deal of fun when you can get things to work out and get the story to make sense finally.
Victoria (04:03): Well, that's right. I think that's part of it. It's not just that we want to tell a story, but as a writer, the challenge of telling the story of getting it right, of getting the character's voice spot on and getting the character in with that first thing that they're going to say on the page, you just have to see who they are, how to create suspense. I love sleight of hands, so my novels, I love to keep people guessing and hopefully guessing wrong if I'm doing my job right, but also to play fair. So I dunno about you, but I think there is nothing worse than reading a novel and it's all about the big twist at the end and you get to the twist and you're like, okay, so I didn't see that coming. But also it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I think the twist should absolutely, when you get to it, it should be "Oh!" not "uhh?",

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with former investigator and crime writer Patrick H. Moore.

Check out our discussion of Patrick's work in sentencing mitigation work. It's a lesser-known unique type of investigative work.

You can download a copy of the transcript here.



 
Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is a retired Los Angeles based investigator and sentencing mitigation specialist. Since 2003, he worked on more than 500 drug trafficking, sex crime, violent crime, and white collar fraud cases. My, what a mix. He also studied English literature and creative writing at San Francisco State University. As a student, he published several short stories and novel excerpts. In 2014, he published his first thriller novel Cicero's Dead. Today he has a three-book series, the first of which is a political thriller called 27 Days, which was along with Cicero's Dead, a finalist in various awards contests. As I said, it is the first of the three books in the Nick Crane thriller series. My guest was also co-founder of a blog called All Things Crime that apparently reached its zenith of popularity somewhere in the mid-2010s, which was what, 20 or 30 years ago? No, no, it was only last decade. It only feels like 50 years. Alrighty. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Patrick H. Moore. Hi. So how are you doing?
Patrick (02:26): Oh, I'm doing great, Debbi. Hi. Thank you very much for having me on.
Debbi (02:30): It's my pleasure. Believe me. And I was very intrigued to see that you used to be an investigator. Was that like a private investigator?
Patrick (02:39): Well, I worked for a private investigator. The person I worked for, he held the private investigator's license, so I did investigations for him and also I did what's called sentencing mitigation work. We worked for lawyers primarily in the greater Los Angeles area, but also all around the country. And we would do a lot of their legwork. We would do a lot of their interviewing, and so we do their legwork, their interviewing, and also we would do a lot of the ghostwriting for the lawyers. So my specialty was actually writing federal sentencing memorandums, which are highly precise documents written in a very formal style that follow certain ground rules.
(03:36): And so I wrote hundreds of these federal sentencing memorandums, and I also edited hundreds for my boss, but I also did investigations. But in doing sentencing mitigation work, it really is, it is like an investigation of a slightly different sort, that is you're not going out and knocking on doors or searching for things on the internet in one of the databases, but rather you're actually talking to your clients or our clients, my boss's company, John Brown and Associates. And so I would interview the clients at great length. I would interview their family members. I would collect character reference letters. So I was basically investigating the client his past, what he had or had not done, whether or not he had come from a disadvantaged background, all of those things. And so it was a kind of investigative work, but a kind of investigative work that very few people know about because the vast majority of the population has no idea that there are sentencing mitigation specialists in existence. And there actually are very few. I think Los Angeles really created this phenomenon, and I don't think it's really caught on in other parts of the country, which is why lawyers from other parts of the country would use my boss's firm too.
Debbi (05:07): That's very interesting.
Patrick (05:09): Because sharp lawyers quickly realized that to get those sentences a fair deal, they needed to have lots of ammunition, they needed to have lots of arrows in their quiver, and a full complete workup on the client they discovered was hugely helpful. We also did state cases,

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with legal thriller author Amanda DuBois.

Among other things, we talk about how telling true stories persuasively can make you a better fiction writer.

For a PDF copy of the interview, just click here. It's there, somewhere. :)


Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest this week is the founder and managing partner of DuBois Levias Law Group, one of Washington State's longest standing woman-owned law firms before becoming a family law attorney, a field I learned to avoid like the plague, frankly, she was a labor and delivery nurse. She uses her medical and legal knowledge to address inequities in the legal system as an author of the Camille Delaney Mystery series, an award-winning book series. Her third and latest book is called Unshackled. She also founded an organization that helps formerly incarcerated people to reenter society. What a laudable goal. And I just finished reading the script for The Shawshank Redemption. What interesting timing. Anyway, I'm pleased to have with me today the author Amanda DuBois. Hi, Amanda. How are you doing?
Amanda (01:57): I'm doing awesome. I want a copy of that script. How interesting that would be.
Debbi (02:01): Oh, I can probably send you the link to where it was found. Or even a copy.
Amanda (02:05): Oh, fantastic. I didn't know you were reading that.
Debbi (02:09): Oh, it, it's kind of cool to read it, and I didn't have a chance to actually watch the movie. We were doing a discussion on it, and I hadn't had a chance to see it in a long time, but it seemed like there were scenes in there that might not have made it into the movie, which was interesting.
Amanda (02:24): Yeah, that's exactly right.
Debbi (02:26): It was very interesting to read, but I'm always pleased to have a lawyer on who has written crime fiction. I'm just pleased to see lawyers writing fiction, frankly, in general. And you have done some remarkable work starting your own law firm. How long have you had your own law firm?
Amanda (02:49): So I'm just this year celebrating 30 years.
Debbi (02:52): 30 years.
Amanda (02:53): And so that makes us one of Seattle's longest-standing women owned law firms.
Debbi (02:58): That's really awesome.
Amanda (02:59): We've been celebrating all year. We have a little pontoon boat outside our office. Our office is on a lake, and we just did this champagne thing. You cork the champagne off and yeah, we've been having a good time celebrating.
Debbi (03:11): That's awesome. That's fantastic. I think I can hazard a guess as to what led you from delivering babies to law, perhaps the absolutely broken healthcare system in this country that had something to do with it?
Amanda (03:26): Well, a little bit. Yeah. Mostly I just wanted to do something different and was, here's a really funny story. How I ended up in law is I wanted to get out of nursing and I thought I'd go to medical school. So I went, took all the super hard science classes and then I decided I didn't really like ... I took like two years of biochemistry and all that stuff. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll go get an MBA. And so I went to buy the MBA study guide book at the bookstore, and right next to that was the law school book. And I thought, well, I'll buy that. I'd never thought about law school. So I went home and I was doing the MBA study book, and it was all this math and calculus and it was really hard, and I thought, this is awful. So I got a beer and sat down and did the law school study book, and I'm like, oh, this is much easier.
(04:09): So my husband came home and I said, I'm going to go to law school. And he goes, what? I said, well, I'm not good at this MBA stuff. It's too much math, and I'm really good at this law school, so they must have a better idea about what would make a good lawyer.

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with crime fiction author Desmond P. Ryan.

Check out our discussion about Toronto and the experiences in law enforcement that have informed his fiction.

You can download a copy of the transcript here.


Debbi Mack (00:07): Hi everyone. My guest today is a former police detective with the Toronto Police who draws on his experiences to write two very distinctive series, the Mike O'Shea series of gritty police stories, reminiscent of Joseph Wambaugh, so definitely gritty stuff. And also a series called A Pint of Trouble, which is closer in tone, apparently to the Thursday Murder Club books by Richard Osman. So I find that just a fascinating dichotomy of series there. Way not to get pigeonholed. It's my pleasure to have with me today, the author Desmond P. Ryan. Hi Des, how are you doing today?
Desmond Ryan (00:54): I'm doing great, Debbi. How about yourself?
Debbi Mack (00:57): Quite well, thank you. I just got through wrapping on my first film. I directed a film a week ago. It was a short film. It's a short film. Yes.
Desmond Ryan (01:12): I'll bet that's a lot of work.
Debbi Mack (01:14): Oh boy. It was a lot of work and it was a very, very interesting and eye opening, just kind of an experience I'll never forget.
Desmond Ryan (01:24): What's the film about?
Debbi Mack (01:25): It's about a priest who has a dark, somewhat dangerous past who has to face the consequences of what he's done.
Desmond Ryan (01:36): Okay.
Debbi Mack (01:37): I'll leave it at that. I don't want to spoil anything.
Desmond Ryan (01:40): And where will we be seeing this film?
Debbi Mack (01:42): I hope to have it somewhere online eventually. Somehow I think that the company that I was associated with, the nonprofit called Charm City Filmmakers helped make this happen. They basically teach new directors how to be directors, what's involved and who does what on the set, that kind of thing, and what your role is. And you'd be surprised how much work the first AD or assistant director does. It's just this amazing process that, it requires you to be really paying attention for one thing.
Desmond Ryan (02:32): So it's not all magic?
Debbi Mack (02:35): It's magic, but it's magic that looks invisible. I mean, the best magic does not reveal its tricks. Right?
Desmond Ryan (02:44): That's true.
Debbi Mack (02:45): But it's funny. People go behind the scenes all the time and see the tricks, so it's interesting, but it's a magic that we willingly buy into. Something like that.
Desmond Ryan (02:56): Yes, you're going to have to let us know when it's going to be [inaudible] I'm already excited.
Debbi Mack (03:03): Thank you. I feel like I've kind of hijacked this interview with you here. Just mentioning that film. My God, the film was really just a great experience and I'll probably talk about it more on a YouTube channel, so I'm on YouTube as Debbi Mack if you want to find it there.
Desmond Ryan (03:22): We will.
Debbi Mack (03:23): Okay, awesome. Let's see. You have the Mike O'Shea Series and the Pint of Trouble series. It's interesting. They're so very different. I love that you're writing though focuses on the diversity of Toronto's neighborhoods. I'm just fascinated with neighborhoods and how cities are made up of neighborhoods often. Tell us about the neighborhoods in Toronto and in particular, Cabbagetown, which I never knew about until I found out you were there, looked it up and has a very interesting entry on Wikipedia.
Desmond Ryan (04:03): Yeah. Well, Debbi I'm born and raised in Toronto, and so I take a lot of it for granted, and it would take me hours and hours and hours to explain the diversity of Toronto. I believe it is the most diverse city in the world, not just because Des says so,

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with thriller author Christina Kovac.

Get the bird's eye lowdown scoop inside story about her latest novel, Watch Us Fall!

For a copy of the transcript, click here.


Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest this week worked in television news covering crime and politics at Fox Five's 10 o'clock news in Washington DC. She went on to become a news producer and desk editor at the Washington Bureau of NBC News. She now writes psychological suspense thrillers set in DC. DC is one of my favorite places to talk about since I live near DC and worked in DC and well, I feel like a DC native almost. Her latest novel coming out in December is called Watch Us Fall. It's my pleasure to have with me. Christina Kovac. Hi, Christina. How are you doing today?
Christina (01:36): I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.
Debbi (01:38): It's my pleasure to have you on. Believe me, I'm always interested in talking to journalists and former journalists because you guys have such a difficult job. I mean, I know once upon the time I aspired to be a journalist, did freelance writing for a bit, but anyway, but I am intrigued by the description of your latest novel, which Alafair Burke described as, and I quote, "an insightful look at the complex dynamics of close female friendships and the lingering effects of trauma." Wow. Tell us more about what inspired you to create the story.
Christina (02:19): I started writing in the beginning, or I think it was in the beginning of the end of the pandemic, and a lot of people around me were coming out of the pandemic. It felt sort of traumatized. I think we all came out of our houses sort of stumbling. I don't know how to act anymore. I don't know how to with my friends anymore. I don't know how to hug people anymore. And it really struck me that being alone, being away from each other felt like a traumatic experience. I wasn't writing out of my own experience. But then I started thinking about what must that be like to have a kind of traumatic experience and then finally find a bunch of friends that you just want to hold onto and that you build this life around. And that was what these four female characters did.
(03:30): They met in college. They're Addie, Lucy, Penelope, and Estella, and they met at Georgetown and they became fast friends, and they were actually, when I was writing, I imagined that they started college during the pandemic like my daughter did, which was really a traumatic experience. They were stuck in their dorms. It was just a really horrible thing. They didn't get to know each other, but what they did was they kind of hung out, the group in their little quad. They hung out very tightly together, and they became just kind of forever friends. And so I thought that was really interesting. I wasn't writing out of my own traumatic experience, I will be honest. But at the time that I was writing, I was also very interested in the fact that misinformation had taken off.
(04:25): A lot of people were listening to lies on the Internet about COVID and all the rest of things, and I wondered why they were so open to things that were obvious lies and misinformation. And I started to wonder if there was a connection between being alone in COVID and feeling kind of traumatized by that and believing things that were the exact opposite of what their doctors were telling them and what made absolutely no sense to any sensible human being. Basically, why you would believe a lie. And that was really the beginning of my thinking about these people. So it's a bunch of disparate strands, strands, excuse me. It started in one place. It moved all over the place. That's kind of how I write. I don't know why. I wish I could just pick a lane and ride down the highway, but that's just not really how I roll.
Debbi (05:19): Yeah, yeah, I can appreciate that.

The Crime Cafe once again is pleased to bring another episode from the annals of Old Time Radio! With one of my favorite protagonists–Philip Marlowe! With Gerald Mohr in the title role!



Get early access to ad-free episodes and bonuses, when you become a Patron!

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with the spy thriller novelist, Howard Kaplan.

He has a fascinating story or two in him, for sure.

For a PDF copy of the transcript, click here.


Debbi (00:12): Hi everyone. My guest today has a most interesting background in international affairs. I would like to talk to him more about that, actually. Let's just say his work was so interesting, he got picked up by the KGB and interrogated. Okay. A native of Los Angeles, he's lived in Israel and traveled throughout Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt. He's the author of the Jerusalem Spy Series, the latest of which is The Syrian Sunset. It's my pleasure to have with me Howard Kaplan. Hi Howard. How are you doing today?
Howard (01:32): I'm doing fine, thank you.
Debbi (01:34): Excellent. Good, good. Your background is just fascinating. At the age of 21, you actually were sent on a mission to smuggle out of Russia, a Soviet dissident's manuscript on microfilm to London?
Howard (01:47): Yes. I actually went to Russia twice to consecutive summers. It was right around my birthday's in July, so I think it was one right before I was 21, and right around the time I was 22. And it was old school stuff. These were before the technology era where at that time the KGB had a single agent who monitored every Xerox machine in the Soviet Union. They could do that because it was a crime to have unemployment. So they gave everybody a job and they used to have something called Samizdat, which was self-published, where people would go into a typewriter and type a manuscript with onion skin, which is very thin paper and carbon paper. Most people don't even know what these things are anymore.
Debbi: (02:51): I do.
Howard (02:52): And you would get several copies and they would be circulated underground. So I was not involved in how they transferred this manuscript to microfilm, however I was involved. When I met with them, I had, again, pre-digital age, lots of rolls of film in a camera bag, some exposed pictures I'd taken, some not. So we took a, this was prearranged, a fresh roll of film, slid open the box carefully so it could be reglued together, opened the Kodak yellow canister, removed the regular film, placed the microfilm in, taped a lead of film back in because they used to come with like six inches of film sticking out and glued the box together and threw it in the box. Wasn't somebody, I thought it was a very good idea and it was unchallenged on the way out.
Debbi (04:00): And it was much less conspicuous than a pumpkin.Howard (04:06): So I was bold and I thought, oh, this is easy. I can go back every year and do this kind of thing. And that turned out to be misconstrued because I went back the next year and I got arrested for meeting with dissidents. But fortunately, I'd actually transferred a different manuscript to the Dutch Embassy at that time because again, they're KGB agents. They would stand outside a little phone booth like a London booth, and Russians couldn't enter a foreign embassy. But when I was arrested, I didn't have anything incriminating on me, and they didn't know actually about any of these prior events. They didn't even know I'd been in Russia the year before. I had a new passport, still with my name, and they were just picking me up for meeting with dissidents, with people protesting the government.(05:06): And so they interrogated me for a few days. It was generally polite. Interestingly, in Moscow, the Russians have a great interest in Jack London, in the writer, I think because the Canadian Arctic, if that's a proper term, is reminiscent of the Soviet North, the Russian North and Siberia. And so they're very akin to his writings. He's one of the writers that's most sought after in Russia. Now they can get books. It's a different world. And they asked me a lot about Jack London novels,

My guest this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is the award-winning author of the Detective Parrott and Quinn McFarland Mystery Series, Saralyn Richard!

Check out our discussion about her latest work, including the Quinn McFarland novels and a new historical novel in the works, inspired by her grandparents, about the 1900 Storm in Galveston, Texas.

Treat yourself to a PDF copy of the transcript.


Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is the award-winning author of the Detective Parrot Mysteries and the Quinn McFarland Mysteries, as well as other books. Her laudable goal is to change the world one book at a time, which I think is a great, great goal. It's my pleasure to introduce today's guest, Saralyn. Richard. Hi, Saralyn. How are you doing? It's been a long time.
Saralyn (01:19): I'm good. It's wonderful to be back with you, Debbi.
Debbi (01:23): It's wonderful to have you on. Thank you. Before we delve into the world of Quinn McFarland, I have to ask about good old Detective Parrott. Do you plan to continue that series?
Saralyn (01:37): I do. I do.
Debbi (01:39): Awesome.
Saralyn (01:40): But I generally give him a rest and he gives me a rest after a book just to have some time to regroup and have some new things happen in his life. New things happen in my life. So I kind of alternate between Detective Parrott books and other books.
Debbi (02:04): That's a great approach actually. That way you don't get burnt on doing the same sort of thing. It adds a little variety.
Saralyn (02:14): And he doesn't get burned with me asking a million questions. I like it when he comes to me and he whispers in my ear and I don't have to beg and plead for, give me a new story.
Debbi (02:31): That's great. I like that. That's absolutely a wonderful approach. What inspired you to write about a woman who works in her family's mortuary?
Saralyn (02:43): Well, Quinn is more than that. She works in that mortuary because she is kind of withdrawn from society. She had a very bad experience when she was young in high school, and she doesn't really trust people. She really just kind of resorts to her family business, which happens to be a mortuary, and there she can be herself. She doesn't have to worry because dead people don't hurt you and they don't talk about you and they don't tell lies about you and things like that. So she's gotten very comfortable in that life and in the first book, which was Bad Blood Sisters, she was just about to turn 30, and it was a big aha moment for her that life is passing her by and she's not accomplishing any of her goals. Originally, she wanted to be in the medical profession, and she is an embalmer, so that is considered the medical profession, but she wanted to be on the living side of things, and she hasn't done that.
(04:17): She hasn't gotten married, she hasn't had a family. She hasn't really made friends since high school. And so she's uncomfortable with the place that she's in in her life, and boom, suddenly she's thrown into solving a mystery and she becomes an amateur sleuth, and that's Bad Blood Sisters. And by the end of Bad Blood Sisters, she is getting herself more on track. When the second book begins, which is Mrs. Oliver's Twist, she has foresworn police matters and crime. She doesn't want to have anything to do with that anymore, and she actually wants to leave the mortuary business and become a physician's assistant. And she's applied to that school and she's about to get in and she's feeling a little guilty that she's leaving her family in the lurch, but she's ready to move on and she's promised, well, she's now got a husband. That's a bit of a spoiler, but she's promised him and she's promised her parents no more criminal activity, no more searching for perpetrators.
(05:41): And then suddenly she is thrown into another mystery because her very favorite teacher fr...

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is clinical psychotherapist and crime writer Harper Kincaid.

Learn more about the challenges and joys of the writing life, along with the inspiration for her books and advice for anyone who wants to write.

Download a copy of the transcript here.


Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is the USA Today bestselling author of the books in the Bookbinder Mystery series, Bookbinding Mystery series. Her work has been published in a variety of publications including Writer's Digest Magazine and CrimeReads, and many, many others. It's my pleasure to have with me today, Harper Kincaid. Hi Harper.
Harper (01:19): Hey, Deb. To everybody here. Such a fabulous treat to be able to meet with you today and talk.
Debbi (01:26): Awesome. Yeah, it's great to meet you too. And I love your name, Harper. You weren't named for Harper Lee, were you?
Harper (01:32): No, and honestly, it's a pen name because I'm also a licensed clinical psychotherapist, and so I try to keep, I don't really keep the streams very separate anymore, but when I first started writing, I was doing child and adolescent social work and I was writing dirty romance and people getting killed. So maybe you want to not have that come up in the same Google search for that kind of thing.
Debbi (02:03): Understandable. Yes, very much so. Let's see. You were born in California and raised in Florida. Then—I love this quote—"moved like a nomad with a bounty" on your head.
Harper (02:15): I did.
Debbi (02:17): Where are you living now?
Harper (02:19): So I have lived right outside of Washington DC in a town, Vienna, Virginia, Northern Virginia. Actually, the Bookbinding series is based there and in the series we're not going to talk too much about it, but it's a combination of places and people and businesses that are really there and some that I've made up. And a girlfriend of mine said it's Vienna zhuzhed up in the books. So I've been there for almost 20 years at this point. But it's true. I lived in New Orleans, I lived all over South Florida. I lived in Northern California, but we're East Coasters and we are there in the DC area, which is an interesting time to be there, to say the least.
Debbi (03:04): Well, cool. I'm glad you're relatively close to where I am.
Harper (03:10): And where are you based? Remind me.
Debbi (03:10): I'm in Columbia, Maryland.
Harper (03:13): Oh, I'm going to wave. *waving*
Debbi (03:16): Hey! *waving* Right across the river. Hey, there, across the river, Vienna and all that. Wow.
Harper (03:24): It's nice. It's funny, when I first came to the area, I did not understand this demarcation between Maryland and Virginia that people, like Virginia people did not really go over to Maryland, vice versa. And I was like, it's not that far. What's the big deal? And I don't know if that's ever been your experience, but that was something I found really strange.
Debbi (03:47): I have found a little peculiar myself when I first came here because I'm originally from New York and I've lived in all these different places too, like California, Pennsylvania, and then back DC for one summer. I mean, it's just here, there and everywhere. Indeed. So when you encounter something like that, you're kind like, what?
Harper (04:11): Yeah, every region, I guess.
Debbi (04:13): And then there's the traffic.
Harper (04:13): Oh, the traffic is never going to get better.
Debbi (04:18): Oh, it is outrageous around here. It really is, and it always makes its way into my books somehow. I mean, I write about around here and one of the things I always write about is traffic. The traffic is terrible.
Harper (04:30): It's true. Everyone can relate to that for sure.
Debbi (04:32): For sure. Yeah, and anytime I've been in Los Angeles,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is journalist and crime writer Jonathan Whitelaw.

Wherein we discuss important topics like treating your writing career like a business. Along with really great topics, like Doctor Who, James Bond, and Terry Pratchett. Just sayin'. :)

You can download a PDF of the transcript here.


Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is an award-winning journalist and author. He once worked in Scottish politics, then moved into journalism where he covered a wide variety of topics for major publications. He appears on the Bloody Brothers Podcast and the Bloody Scotland Book Club. His novel, The Concert Hall Killer, was recently shortlisted for the Whodunnit Award for Best Traditional Mystery by the Crime Writers of Canada. Originally from Scotland, from Glasgow, he is now living in Canada in Alberta. It's my pleasure to have with me Jonathan Whitelaw. Hi, Jonathan. How are you doing?
Jonathan (01:37): Hi there. I'm very well, thank you, Debbi. Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Debbi (01:42): Oh, it is a pleasure to have you on, and I love your accent. It is so beautiful and musical.
Jonathan (01:49): Thank you very much. It's the only one I have.
Debbi (01:51): I love it. I love it. It's great.
Jonathan (01:54): Very kind.
Debbi (01:55): What was it that took you from Glasgow to Alberta?
Jonathan (02:00): My wife. Short and sweet and simple answer, much like her, except the simple part, obviously far from it, she's the brains of the operation and I often say that I always like to try to think that I'm the eye candy of the operation, but I'm not even that, so she's that as well. So yeah, my wife's a doctor, so a few years ago it was pre-pandemic actually. She was at a conference and she got chatting to an expat doctor who's working in a place called North Battleford in Saskatchewan, and he was there promoting Western Canada. And him and my wife got chatting and he effectively offered her a job, but of course, with the pandemic and then my wife completing their training and stuff like that, I was having a baby. Everything got kicked into the very, very long grass for a couple of years, and the job was no longer there when we were ready for it. So by that point, we'd really talked ourselves into it and we'd explored all the options and stuff like that about coming over and visas and permanent residency and things and citizenship beyond that. And we found that there was a job opening in Alberta. A place called Grand Prairie, which is about an hour's flight northwest from Calgary. And that was it. We up sticks and moved wagons west in May 2022, and we haven't looked back since.


[W]e found that there was a job opening in Alberta. A place called Grand Prairie, which is about an hour's flight northwest from Calgary. And that was it. We up sticks and moved wagons west in May 2022, and we haven't looked back since.

Debbi (03:29): Wow. That's really something.
Jonathan (03:31): Yeah
Debbi (03:32): You can write from anywhere, so that's cool.
Jonathan (03:35): Exactly right. Well, I was a journalist as your very, very kind intro mentioned there. I was a journalist, but I write full-time now. I've been able to go full-time writing since we moved to Canada, so it's over three years that I've been a full-time writer. And it was a mixture of circumstances. It was a mixture of where we were going and what we're going to be doing and stuff like that, and The Bingo Hall Detectives as a series sort of picking up. So yeah, it's been a great adventure. We've been made to feel very, very welcome here in Alberta and Canada in general.
Debbi (04:13): It's fantastic.
Jonathan (04:14): And I get to go back to the UK all the time for work. I go back for festivals and stuff like that,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer and media entrepreneur, Clay Stafford.

Don't miss our discussion of the ways the publishing and filmmaking worlds collide, so to speak. :)

To download a PDF of the transcript, just click here.


Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. We are back with a new season of the show, which is starting its 11th year. I can't believe I've been doing it this long. And once again, I have with me one of the crime genre's most multimedia and multihyphenate entrepreneurs out there. His business, American Blackguard, does film and television production as well as publishing. He's also the organizer and promoter for the Killer Nashville Conference, which will be coming up later this year. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Clay Stafford. Hi, Clay. How are you doing?
Clay (01:34): Hi, Debbi,
Debbi (01:34): Gotta get you on camera. There we go.
Clay (01:38): Hey, how are you?
Debbi (01:39): I'm fine, thank you. How are you?
Clay (01:41): Eleven years.
Debbi (01:42): Eleven freaking years. Can you freaking believe?
Clay (01:45): Stamina. Stamina.
Debbi (01:47): It's insane. There's stamina. Yeah, I'm mustering up the stamina to keep it going. Yeah.
Clay (01:56): Well, for Killer Nashville, we're coming up on 20 years.
Debbi (01:59): Wow, that's impressive.
Clay (02:02): Yeah, so ... stamina.
Debbi (02:06): Amen to that, man. Amen. I hear you. Apart from getting ready for the conference, what projects are you currently working on? What's on your front burner, so to speak?
Clay (02:17): I've actually got three projects that I'm working on right now. One is a nonfiction book and the other is a memoir. And because I come from a very eclectic kind of Appalachian background, and then Country Boy went to the city, and so there's some things to discuss there. And then I'm working on a novel now, the first in his series, and it's got a few short stories and poems and stuff like that out and some essays, but those are the long-term projects that I'm working on right now.
Debbi (02:58): Very cool. It's funny you should say you were a country boy who found the city. I was a city girl who ended up in the country. Briefly.
Clay (03:10): Yeah. So I sort of came back. I was a New York guy, a Los Angeles guy, and a Miami guy, and went back and forth from place to place in those areas, but ended up in Nashville. So I don't know if I'll actually, we can call Nashville the country, but it's back towards home where I'm from in Tennessee.
Debbi (03:38): It's not quite as country as say, Bakersfield, California.
Clay (03:43): No, I've been to Bakersfield. I love Bakersfield. But no, it's still, we've got our family farm back in east Tennessee, and so I've still got roots in that area and spend a lot of time in north Georgia and areas like that. So I get out in the tick country, so.
Debbi (04:10): Excellent, excellent. Very good. Nashville is also a big place for music, correct?
Clay (04:16): Yeah, they do a little bit of music here,
Debbi (04:20): A little bit of music, just a little,
Clay (04:26): Yeah. And the little community I live in is replete with country music and gospel pop performers, writers, producers and stuff. And so we have these tour buses that come by all the time, and I never thought I would live in an area where tour buses come by to point at houses and things and say, so and so lives there, so-and-so lives there, but it's just, yeah, Nashville's got its charm, that's for sure.
Debbi (05:00): My goodness, that must be quite a thing. Having tour buses come through your neighborhood. Things have changed so fast in terms of the publishing industry and the movie industry and the television industry that I see them kind of coming together. Do you have any thoughts on that?

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer J.D. Barker.

Don't miss our discussion on writing across different genres and the benefits of collaborative writing.

You can download a copy of transcript here.


Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. My guest today is a New York Times and international bestselling author whose work has been broadly described as suspense thrillers, often incorporating elements of horror, crime mystery, science fiction and supernatural. That's quite a bit. His debut novel Forsaken was a finalist for the Bram Stroker Award in 2014. Several of his works have been optioned for adaptation to motion pictures. It's my pleasure to have with me my guest, JD Barker. Hi, JD. How you doing today?
J.D. (01:32): I'm doing great, Debbi. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Debbi (01:34): Well, it's my pleasure to have you on, believe me. I'm glad you're here. I love that you have no problem with mixing genres in your work. I think that's awesome. Would you say that there's any particular genre that tends to be dominant in your writing?
J.D. (01:51): Well, it's funny. I grew up, I've been writing my entire life, but I worked behind the scenes for about 20 some years. I worked as a book doctor and a ghost writer, basically helping other people get published, and one of the things I saw over and over again is an author would write a particular book and it would hit, and then all of a sudden they had to write that same book, but different for the next 20 books. The publisher just wanted that same book but different, and honestly, that scared me. I didn't want to get caught in that kind of hole, so I made a conscious effort from the very beginning. I'm a huge fan of horror. I'm a huge fan of thrillers, so I basically bounced back and forth, and I think my Wikipedia page probably sums it up the best. I think that's what you were reading from, but I describe it as a suspense novel as the common thread with little elements of horror, of sci-fi of this, of that and what that allows me to do. As long as I keep that thriller-suspense framework in place, I can branch out a little bit and the readers come along for the ride. It's not so different that it frightens 'em off.

As long as I keep that thriller-suspense framework in place, I can branch out a little bit and the readers come along for the ride. It's not so different that it frightens 'em off.
Debbi (02:51): That's really cool. That's great. So it gives you more flexibility
J.D. (02:54): And agents hate it, and publishers hate it because again, they want you to write that same book, but different. But I'm finding that the fans, they actually enjoy it because I'm not giving them the same book every single time. I think it gets old as a reader too, so it allows me to mix it up and just keep it fresh.
Debbi (03:12): Totally, I agree. Yeah, so you're directly reaching the readership as opposed to going through what a publisher thinks this should work, which is something I've advocated a long time.
J.D. (03:27): Everybody approaches this from different angles, which is something else I picked up on over time. As a business model, publishers really only care about selling that book, the one they have in front of 'em, the one they signed you for. That's really their only priority. But you as an author, you really need to look at your business, your model, your brand, and approach it from that standpoint. And you can really see the stark differences. If you walk into a major bookstore, you walk into a Barnes & Noble and you're going to see pretty much the title of every book is huge. The author name is tiny little print at the top or the bottom. It's an afterthought because the publisher knows they have to put it on there, but they just want to sell that one title. But if you look around that same bookstore at the brand name authors,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Deven Greene.

Check out our discussion about her medical and scientific thrillers.

You can download a copy of the interview transcript here.


Debbi (00:53): Hi everyone. My guest today writes fiction in the suspense and thriller genres. Most of her works involve science or medicine. She has a PhD in biochemistry and an MD, and she practiced pathology for more than 20 years. Her books include the Erica Rosen Trilogy, Ties That Kill, and her latest novel, The Organ Broker. She's also published several short stories. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Deven Greene. Hi, Deven. How are you doing today?
Deven (01:29): I'm doing great. How about yourself?
Debbi (01:31): Great, thank you. And I'm glad you're here today, so very glad that you're on the show. You live in Northern California? Yes?
Deven (01:39): That's correct. Yeah.
Debbi (01:40): What part? Because I used to live in Petaluma.
Deven (01:43): Oh, okay. Well, I live, you may have heard of then of Orinda, which is a tiny town, but it's near Walnut Creek in Berkeley.
Debbi (01:52): Oh, yeah. I remember. It's the Napa Valley, right?
Deven (01:55): Yeah. Well, yeah.
Debbi (01:57): I'll be darned. Beautiful country up there.
Deven (02:01): Yeah, no, I like it here.
Debbi (02:03): Yeah. So with a background like yours, I can certainly see how you got inspired to write medical thrillers or science thrillers. When you started writing fiction, did you find you had to kind of adjust your writing to be a bit less formal and more engaging, so to speak?
Deven (02:22): Well, it's quite different than writing pathology reports, I'll say that. But I'd say that I've read enough fiction, especially in my genre, to be able to adapt pretty easily. And interestingly, when I first started out, I had a resident working under me, and she wrote a pathology report, and she did a description of everything, but she didn't say what it was, and it was like she was waiting, trying to build up suspense. I said, no, this is a pathology report. You have to say what it is.
Debbi (03:04): Yeah, yeah. Just say it.
Deven (03:06): Yeah. But it's different in what I'm doing now,
Debbi (03:10): For sure. Yeah. I'm sure you do work in technical terms though. And how do you, what's your method for taking complex scientific subjects and making them understandable to the average reader?
Deven (03:26): That's a good question. So I really like to put what I call sciencey things in my writing. That's one thing I really enjoy doing, and hopefully people will learn things. So I'll write something and then I'll go through it several times to simplify it, and then I give it to other people to read who are not in the medical or scientific field and get feedback. And a great one is my little brother who didn't know the difference between a gallbladder and a kidney, I found out. So he's a good one. If he can understand it, most people can. So I wind up simplifying. I try to keep it still accurate. Some people may find it too much. I don't know. They can skip over those parts, but that's not the main substance of my books.


So I really like to put what I call sciencey things in my writing. That's one thing I really enjoy doing, and hopefully people will learn things. So I'll write something and then I'll go through it several times to simplify it, and then I give it to other people to read who are not in the medical or scientific field and get feedback.

Debbi (04:28): You'd rather sprinkle it in than overwhelm with detail?
Deven (04:31): Yes, that's my attempt. That's my attempt.
Debbi (04:35): I think that's generally the way people approach it. I know that when it comes to legal terminology, I tend to, I used to be very, what'd you call it?

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Ed Zuckerman.
Check out his wealth of experience a freelance journalist, as well as his work as a debut crime writer!

You can download a copy of the transcript here!


Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. My guest today has what most people would consider to be a pretty interesting resume. He began his career as a journalist writing about zombies, killer bees, talking apes and other subjects for Rolling Stone, Spy, the New Yorker, Harpers, Esquire, and many other magazines. He has written two nonfiction books, The Day After World War III and Small Fortunes then moved into writing for television drama, including more than 50 episodes of the original Law and Order, Blue Bloods, and Law and Order SVU. I have that right, don't I? SVU?
Ed (01:35): That's correct.
Debbi (01:36): Alright. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Ed Zuckerman. Hi, Ed. Good to see you here.
Ed (01:43): I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Debbi (01:45): Well, it's my pleasure, believe me. And wow. I mean, your guest post just tells an amazing story, and it struck me that you found the information initially in a book where a lot of people would've just stopped and said, oh, I got a book about Nigerian police. That'll do. But you took it farther. You talked to the author and then you went to Nigeria.
Ed (02:10): That's right. That's right. Well, I was a journalist, but the first part of my, I've always been a writer, but my first part of my career, I was a journalist, ended up doing a lot of research and enjoyed the travel and enjoyed the research.
(02:21): And when I came up with the idea for my novel Wealth Management, one of the characters is a detective from Nigeria who shows up in Switzerland to investigate a crime. Geneva, Switzerland is where the story is set. And instead of just making stuff up about Nigerian police, especially nowadays with concern about being authentic and not making who you're writing for, who writing about, I thought I would find and meet some Nigerian policemen, which was easier said than done. I can retell the story or it's in the blog post that I put on your website. So what do you?


[I]nstead of just making stuff up about Nigerian police, especially nowadays with concern about being authentic and not making who you're writing for, who writing about, I thought I would find and meet some Nigerian policemen, which was easier said than done.

Debbi (02:58): I will link directly to the website.
Ed (03:00): Okay.
Debbi (03:00): I think they should read it because really it's a remarkable story to read.
Ed (03:05): The short version. I ended up going to Nigeria, which is a tough top. People don't go to Nigeria. Nigerians don't need you, and they expect the same. Tourists are not especially welcome, and you have to be all careful watching your step over there.


People don't go to Nigeria. Nigerians don't need you, and they expect the same. Tourists are not especially welcome, and you have to be all careful watching your step over there.

Debbi (03:22): Interesting. Very interesting. And the police are not always cooperative.
Ed (03:28): They didn't see any reason to cooperate with me, but I did arrange some contacts as I described in my blog post that you can read on the Crime Cafe website.
Debbi (03:37): I will be sure and put a link into the notes with this episode for sure.
Ed (03:42): Oh, good.
Debbi (03:43): Yeah. And you're giving away a copy of the book as I understand it.
Ed (03:47): Yes, I am. I have a few left.
Debbi (03:50): Awesome, excellent. Because I got to tell you, I'm reading it now and it's very, very compulsive reading. Short chapters. Well-written.
Ed (04:01): Well, I did write for a TV for a long time,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Brenda Chapman.

Brenda discusses her journey from writing for her daughters to becoming a published author, her inspiration for various protagonists, and her writing process. She also shares insights into her latest series, the Hunter and Tate Mysteries, set in Ottawa. Brenda emphasizes the importance of setting in her novels and offers advice for aspiring writers. Check out the interview for more about Brenda's career and her approach to crafting compelling crime fiction.

You can download a copy of the transcript here.


Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. My guest today is a Canadian crime fiction author with 25 published novels as well as standalones and short stories. She writes various police procedurals and mystery series for adults as well as mysteries for middle grade readers, which I think is really cool.
(01:19): She is currently working on her new mystery series in Ottawa, set in Ottawa called the Hunter and Tate Mysteries. The third book in the series, Fatal Harvest, comes out in April, came out in April 2024. Sorry, excuse me. Her work has been shortlisted for several awards, including the Crime Writers of Canada Awards of Excellence, so wow. Okay. So she was once the writer-editor, I have to note here of the Pest Management Regulatory Agency, which really intrigued me because I used to work at EPA, but we can talk about that later maybe. That stuff is fascinating to me. In any event, it's my pleasure to introduce crime writer Brenda Chapman. Hey Brenda, how are you doing?
Brenda (02:10): Great, thanks, Debbi. Thanks for having me.
Debbi (02:13): Oh, it's a pleasure, believe me. And finding out that you worked in pest management, wrote about pest management to me is just fascinating.
Brenda (02:22): I was only one of a group of writer-editors.
Debbi (02:25): Yeah. Well, very cool. Still, we'll have to talk about that at some point. Back when I was practicing law, I worked at the Office of General Counsel, Pesticides and Toxics Division, so I worked a lot on FIFRA, the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act. What a mouthful, right?
Brenda (02:49): Fiction is much more fun.
Debbi (02:53): So anyway, when you first started writing fiction with serious Intent to be published, what inspired you to write for middle graders?
Brenda (03:02): Well, my daughters were 12 and nine, and I was actually teaching at the time. I was teaching kids with special ed and reading with some of them, and I thought—one girl brought in a book to read aloud to me, and I thought I could do a better plot than this. And that got me spurred into trying it, and it was really just to see if I could do it. So I wrote the Jennifer Bannon Mysteries. The first one was called Running Scared, and I really wrote it for my daughters. And when I finished the manuscript and my youngest was reading it and she said, "Mummy, you write just like a real author." And I thought, wow, maybe I can get this published. So I spent my lunch hours trying to find a publisher and found one in Toronto. They took that first one and it turned into a four book series in the end.


The first one was called Running Scared, and I really wrote it for my daughters. And when I finished the manuscript and my youngest was reading it and she said, "Mummy, you write just like a real author."

Debbi (03:57): That's awesome. So you found one in Toronto then? That's great.
Brenda (04:01): Yeah.
Debbi (04:03): Fantastic. Is it a small press?
Brenda (04:04): It was. They've been absorbed by Dundurn, which is a bigger middle press in Toronto, and they've taken over my books from that time and the Stonechild and Rouleau series, which is ... I went from writing for kids to writing for adults, and I did the Stonechild and Rouleau series,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Carter Wilson.

Don't miss our discussion of his process for writing thrillers without outlining.

You can download the transcript here.


Debbi (00:53): Hi everyone. My guest today is not only the Publisher's Weekly and USA Today bestselling author of 10 award-winning psychological thrillers, but his work has been optioned for television and film, and his latest release, Tell Me What You Did, was a Barnes and Noble National Monthly pick. Awesome. He also hosts a podcast Making It Up, and is founder of the Unbound Writer Company, which provides coaching services, writing retreats, and online courses. So he is a busy man. He has also contributed short fiction to various publications and was featured in RL Stein's young adult anthology Scream and Scream Again. I'm pleased to have with me today Carter Wilson. Hi Carter. Thanks for being here!
Carter (01:46): For having me here. Debbi great. Great to talk to you.
Debbi (01:49): Oh, it's great to have you here. Thank you so much. Tell us a little about your latest book and what inspired you to write it.
Carter (01:58): Well, I'll start with the inspiration. A few years ago, I have a buddy named Blake and he and I would always give each other podcast recommendations, and he came up to me one day and he's like, oh, you have to check out this podcast. Basically on this podcast, people can call in and leave a voicemail and leave an apology. And so I guess the conceit of the podcast is they would just play these apologies, and the human part of my brain thought that was pretty cool. The thriller writer part of my brain immediately thought, well, what if it wasn't a podcast? What if it was a confession? And so that was kind of the nugget of the idea for my book. And I don't outline, so I never know where my book's going, but ultimately, Tell Me What You Did follows the story of 30-year-old Poe Webb, who is the host of the nation's top true crime podcast called Tell Me What You Did.


Basically on this podcast, people can call in and leave a voicemail and leave an apology. And so I guess the conceit of the podcast is they would just play these apologies, and the human part of my brain thought that was pretty cool.

(02:51): And that's the conceit of the podcast. People call in and they can confess to crimes anonymously, and if Poe believes them, then they have a discussion about the criminal mind. And then one day she has this really creepy guest on who seems vaguely familiar to her, and his confession is that he murdered Poe's mother. Now, of course, Poe knows her mother was murdered. Poe actually witnessed her mother's murder when she was 13. But the thing that's sticking with her, she realizes this can't be the guy because Poe spent eight years of her life tracking down that murderer and killing him herself. So she's forced with the question, who is this guy? And if he is telling the truth, who did I kill? So that's kind of the setup for the book.
Debbi (03:37): Wow, that's a very intriguing setup I have to say. I also, I just started it and the way you structure the beginning, it just pulls you right in.
Carter (03:50): Oh, good.
Debbi (03:51): It was so intriguing. It's basically like a podcast within a podcast.
Carter (03:55): Yeah. There's interspersed throughout the chapters is kind of a cut up podcast transcript between these two individuals, and that ultimate conversation takes place at the end of the book, but you're seeing glimpses of that conversation throughout the story.
Debbi (04:12): That sounds fantastic. So is this kind of a commentary on true crime podcasting? Do you have any feelings about why it is that people gravitate to true crime podcasts?
Carter (04:29): I mean, I don't know if I would say it's so much of a commentary because when I kind of approac...

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Priscilla Paton.

Check out our discussion of her Twin Cities mysteries and the inspiration behind her dual detectives Eric Jansson and Deb Metzger.

Download a copy of the interview in PDF.


Debbi (00:51): Hi everyone. My guest today is originally from Maine, but now hails from the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, which invariably evokes images of Mary Tyler Moore tossing her hat in the air for me. If you're a person of a certain age, you'll understand. Anyway. Some of you may understand that reference. And in any case, she is a college professor from that area and she's now an author of the Twin Cities Mystery series. It's my pleasure to have with me today, Priscilla Paton. Hey, Priscilla, how you doing?
Priscilla (01:29): Well, I'm doing really great. I'm actually in Arizona right now escaping some of those famous Midwest winters. Just for a very brief time though, I'll be getting back to the greater Twin Cities experience very quickly. I'm now retired from teaching, which gives me more time to make mischief and at least in my head, get into trouble.
Debbi (01:56): I love it. Yes. Isn't it wonderful when we can write out these things on the page as opposed to actually committing crimes?
Priscilla (02:05): Right.
Debbi (02:07): Let's see. Tell us about your series. You have dual detectives, detective Eric Jansson and Deb Metzger. How was it that you came up with these two characters?
Priscilla (02:20): Well, as you noted in your introduction, I've been transplanted to the Midwest. I'm been married to a Midwester for decades, and I'm both an insider and outsider there to some extent. Eric Jansson represents the Scandinavian Midwest as I've come to know it. He does have dark hair, but he still has blue eyes and the dark hair goes back to the Sámi people in northern Norway. So I got to play with his experience, his immersion in that Scandinavian-American culture, and I came up with him first. He was still a bit of a stoic. Scandinavians and New Englanders both are. So he was stoic. He wasn't that given to free and open expression, though he may have had a lot of renegade thoughts running through his head. He's kind of a rural bender, and I started writing, exploring what I could do with that character, and I found it was a little too quiet, a little too internalized.


Eric Jansson represents the Scandinavian Midwest as I've come to know it. He does have dark hair, but he still has blue eyes and the dark hair goes back to the Sámi people in northern Norway.

(03:30): Though he is physically active, he's athletic, and I put him aside for a minute and started writing about a woman who finds a PI type, who finds her cases by looking at the boards and coffee shops. As I was coming up with her, I was sitting in a coffee shop looking at a board, and I think that idea lasted as long as my cup of coffee and I went and then sort of like Athena bursting out of Zeus's head, Deb Metzger came to me. She ... as somebody who would rile Eric. Not necessarily be, not that they would necessarily hate each other, they don't by any means, but someone who would push him. In fact, in one of the novels that their chief joked something about, she says something about Eric being so quiet. He says, that's a good job for you. Draw him out. In a way she does it by annoying him. So it's sort of a vinegar and oil couple. But I tried to give them slightly different skill sets as usually happens when you have partners in real life and in fiction. So Eric is a little bit more the puzzle solver, a little bit more.
(04:46): A couple of times, once he played, pretended he was a waiter. He is a little more on the edge of, I don't know if I want to say deceit, but he can be a little cagey here where Deb is more forthright and she is tall.