Meet Nikki Brown and Yaniv Rodenski, co-founders of Cartesian, a Melbourne startup using agentic AI to revolutionise how ecosystems drive growth. In this episode of The Ecosystem Experience, we explore why the traditional marketplace model is dying, how AI agents are replacing search engines, and what it means to build a business when the platform beneath you could change overnight.
Nikki and Yaniv take us back to nearly two years ago when they first started talking about agents... and had to explain to everyone what an agent even was. Today, agentic AI is everywhere, but most people still don't grasp how fundamentally it changes ecosystems. The old marketplace model was built on search engines. Users went to a destination, searched for solutions, and hoped they found the right one. That world is disappearing fast. People now expect proactive recommendations in context, not separate destinations they have to visit.
We discuss what contextual recommendations actually look like in practice. Imagine working on a report and an agent proactively suggests a dataset that would make your analysis better... something you didn't even know existed. Or a consultant being told "there's already a product that does this" before they waste time building something custom. This isn't science fiction. This is the ecosystem experience that users now demand, and vendors who don't adapt will be left behind.
From the challenge of being a small startup disrupting established marketplace models to the reality of building on top of foundation models whose costs are currently subsidised by investors, Nikki and Yaniv are refreshingly honest about the risks. The platform you integrate with could change strategy tomorrow. The LLM you build on could change pricing next quarter. Your business model needs to account for these dependencies, not ignore them.
Nikki emphasises what vendors keep getting wrong: they're not focusing enough on actual user needs. There's a tendency to build things and throw them out there to see what works, rather than deeply understanding the use cases that matter. Yaniv adds that agents are still being built too broad, and vendors aren't thinking strategically enough about their relationships with both the platforms they integrate with and the foundation models they depend on.
Whether you're building AI-powered products, managing an ecosystem platform, or trying to understand where marketplaces are headed, Nikki and Yaniv offer a masterclass in navigating technological disruption. They remind us that vendors need to rapidly expand their APIs and integration points, moving from external destinations to embedded experiences. The future isn't about building a better search experience... it's about not needing search at all.
Meet Scott Brinker, the "Godfather of Martech" who's been mapping the technology landscape since 2011 when there were just 150 tools. Today, that number exceeds 14,000... and Scott's still updating the map. In this episode of The Ecosystem Experience, we explore why ecosystems keep exploding in complexity, how to think strategically about what's actually a system, and why being slightly more agile than your competitors is all you need to win.
Scott takes us back to the early days when senior marketers saw technology as a betrayal of marketing itself. The first landscape graphic wasn't meant to become an annual ritual... it was simply exhibit A in a case for why marketing teams needed to invest in technical talent. Nobody expected the exponential growth that followed: 300 to 900 to 2,000 to 4,000 tools. What shocked Scott most wasn't the growth itself, but that innovation was happening simultaneously across every single category, year after year.
We discuss the myth of consolidation. Yes, companies get acquired and others fail constantly, but the entrance rate of new startups keeps outpacing the exit rate. This dynamic had never been seen in software before martech... and now it's everywhere. FinTech, engineering tech, and cybersecurity landscapes are all larger than martech. Scott reveals there's also a "dark ecosystem" of internal builds and private solutions that never appear on any map, potentially doubling or tripling the actual number of tools organisations are managing.
From the explosion of SaaS enabling non-technical founders to start companies, to the reality that AI isn't a category but a capability being baked into everything, Scott explains why ecosystems will continue fragmenting. We explore his concept of "Martec's Law"... technology changes exponentially whilst organisations change logarithmically. You can't magically make your organisation change faster, but you can be strategic about which changes to embrace and ruthlessly decide which ones to let go.
Scott challenges the common trap of viewing partnerships as isolated, point-to-point relationships. Real ecosystem leadership requires understanding system dynamics, thinking about second-order and third-order effects, and recognising that pulling one lever here will create ripples everywhere else. He's blunt about what happens when you don't think this way: you'll suddenly find yourself fighting fires because something you did over here exploded something over there.
Whether you're building in an ecosystem, managing partnerships at a platform company, or trying to make sense of the overwhelming technology landscape, Scott offers a masterclass in systems thinking. He reminds us that we're not playing a single-player game... this is multiplayer, and being just slightly more agile than your competitors is enough. The key is choosing your battles wisely and investing in organisational agility, not trying to do everything everywhere all at once.
Meet Julia Wester, CEO and co-founder of 55 Degrees, who's built a thriving business from within the Atlassian ecosystem over the past 13 years. In this episode of The Ecosystem Experience, we explore the realities of building a company when most of your revenue depends on someone else's platform... and why that's both the biggest opportunity and the greatest risk you'll ever take.
Julia takes us back to 2012 when she and her husband Daniel started after his 15 years building internal plugins at Turner Broadcasting. They weren't business people, but they knew Jira, Confluence, and the Atlassian ecosystem inside out. The marketplace handled payments, VAT, currency conversions, and all the complexity they didn't want to build themselves. It seemed like an easy, safer way to start. They had no idea how right that decision would be.
We discuss the uncomfortable truth every ecosystem partner faces: the platform could build your features tomorrow and you wouldn't know until your revenue drops. Julia's refreshingly honest about this dependency risk whilst being deeply grateful for what the Atlassian ecosystem has enabled. She shares how 55 Degrees is actively diversifying into Azure DevOps and other platforms, not just for growth, but for survival... because you can't have all your eggs in one basket when that basket belongs to someone else.
From acquiring their first app that already had ecosystem presence to learning that you can't just copy-paste solutions between platforms, Julia reveals the investment required to enter new ecosystems properly. We explore why platform-native development matters, how trust between partners and vendors is fragile (one social media leak can ruin it for everyone), and why vendors can't always communicate early... because not all partners have proven trustworthy with confidential information.
Julia pulls back the curtain on the reality of running an ecosystem business: herding squirrels from Slack and a dozen other places, managing teams across time zones, and relying on a heavily customised personal Trello board to "get her shit together" when everything else fails. She emphasises that whilst the commercial opportunities are real, the relationships and community connections are what make ecosystems truly special... even when you're celebrating Christmas together in Sweden.
Whether you're considering building in an ecosystem, already generating revenue from one, or managing partner relationships at a platform company, Julia offers hard-won wisdom on balancing dependency with opportunity, investing in ecosystem knowledge before rushing in, and why understanding the humans behind the business models matters just as much as the commercial metrics.
Meet Asher Mathew, co-founder and CEO of Partnership Leaders, the platform that's become the connective tissue for thousands of partnership professionals worldwide. In this episode of The Ecosystem Experience, we trace his journey from supporting a 500,000-strong channel ecosystem to building communities that have fundamentally reshaped how partnership professionals connect, learn, and advance their careers.
Asher reveals how a simple email to 13 competitors during COVID sparked a movement that would define an entirely new professional identity. We explore the emergence of the Chief Partner Officer role (now 1,100+ globally), why this matters for the industry, and how Partnership Leaders evolved from a hobby into a Forrester-style platform offering benchmarks, research, and talent development alongside its vibrant community roots.
From the trenches of scaling Avalara's 1,600 integrations to hosting 420 people at the first Catalyst event in Miami, Asher shares hard truths about what it takes to elevate partnerships from an art to a science. We unpack why partnerships teams are adopting AI at twice the industry rate, the critical gap in P&L fluency that holds partnership leaders back from CRO roles, and why explaining the value of partnerships must become a daily discipline, not an annual exercise.
We discuss the skills that will define the next generation of partnership professionals, why understanding business models matters more than mastering go-to-market tactics, and how partnership thinking is expanding beyond B2B SaaS into healthcare, airlines, and retail ecosystems.
Whether you're a frontline partner manager fighting for resources or a senior executive trying to unlock the full potential of your ecosystem, Asher offers evidence-based insights on building programmes that drive measurable business outcomes whilst staying true to the relationship-first principles that make partnerships powerful.
Meet Kelly Sarabyn, Director of Technology Partner Programs at HubSpot, where she orchestrates relationships with over 1,600 technology partners. In this episode of The Ecosystem Experience, we explore an unconventional pathway into tech partnerships - from legal fellow to book community founder, creative agency leader, and now ecosystem architect at one of the world's leading CRM platforms.
Kelly reveals how the fundamentals of building reader-author communities translate into managing enterprise partner ecosystems at scale. We dive into the inflection point where individual relationships must evolve into systems, exploring when personal connection gives way to structured programmes and what gets lost (or gained) in that transition.
From the inside of a company built on relationship management, Kelly shares how HubSpot approaches its own partnerships - the metrics that matter beyond revenue, the challenge of fostering genuine partner-to-partner collaboration, and the systems required to make 1,600 partnerships feel personal rather than transactional.
We unpack war stories where human relationships trumped technical integration, discuss how AI is reshaping ecosystem management, and examine what it takes to build partner success that extends beyond simple attachment rates into advocacy and retention.
Whether you're managing your first handful of partners or scaling to thousands, Kelly offers hard-won insights on building the relationship muscle that makes ecosystems thrive - plus her essential principle for anyone starting their ecosystem journey from day one.
Meet Dan Faulkner, CEO of SmartBear, the quiet giant powering software quality for millions of developers worldwide. In this inaugural episode of The Ecosystem Experience, we dive deep into how SmartBear has built its empire around API lifecycle management, application testing, and observability whilst navigating the complex world of ecosystems.
Dan shares candid insights about SmartBear's recent strategic collaboration with AWS, revealing what it really takes to cut through the noise of thousands of partners vying for attention from hyperscale cloud providers. We explore the delicate balance between nurturing massive open source communities (with hundreds of thousands of weekly downloads) and building sustainable commercial products.
From coaching product managers to think beyond end-user features to the art of ecosystem thinking, Dan unpacks the leadership challenges of scaling a developer-first company into enterprise markets. We discuss the emergence of AI agents, the shift to answer engine optimisation, and how communities are becoming the new battleground for customer discovery.
Whether you're a product leader trying to build ecosystem DNA into your team, a startup exploring cloud partnerships, or simply curious about the connective tissue that keeps modern software running, this conversation offers rare insight into the strategies and philosophies driving one of the industry's most influential yet understated companies.
Plus, Dan reveals his one indispensable tool and shares why transparency beats clever positioning every time when building lasting ecosystem relationships.