Host Pete Burden speaks with Dr Rob Warwick – Professor of Management and Organisational Learning at the University of Chichester, in the UK.
Our conversation covers Rob’s view of power, influenced by social theorists like Norbert Elias. A view which sees power as a web of relationships. And how Rob understands his responsibilities as a researcher and lecturer within this context – how every conversation can have unknown, and unpredictable, ripples.
He touches on his own visceral experiences of power, while working, for example, in the NHS. And how ‘detached involvement’, and a growing awareness of power can be used, and be useful in getting things done.
Rob also talks about Action Learning and how, for him, this approach, which requires real vulnerability, allows people to develop a new map of power, and therefore gain agency. Despite perhaps more obvious organisational hierarchy and the positional power that comes with it.
Some book suggestions from Rob:
Host Pete Burden speaks with Paula Harriott, CEO of Unlock, the UK charity focused on supporting and advocating for people with criminal records.
The conversation covers the importance of shedding the "victim" narrative and embracing an identity of strength and survivorship. Paula advocates for moving beyond eliciting sympathy, and instead focusing on the transformative power of personal experience, by reframing past challenges as learning opportunities, and purposefully developing an identity of resilience.
Individuals can contribute to, and through, deeper, more meaningful conversations. As Paula suggests, this internal, and personal work, though often private, involves acknowledging vulnerability while also choosing to share from a place of strength, ultimately rejecting the perpetuation of "misery memoirs" or "trauma porn."
Paula also underscores the significance of building supportive networks and communities, finding "coalitions of the willing," and engaging in political activity that champions knowledge equity – all while remaining receptive to others and committed to a reflective, embodied practice of healing and modelling positive change.
Host Pete Burden speaks with Paul Dickinson. In 2000, Paul founded the Climate Disclosure Project (CDP) with an ambitious goal: to create a global economic system that prevents climate change. It does this by persuading 650 of the world’s largest investors, over 24,000 of the largest companies in the world, and over 1000 cities to report annually on their key sustainability metrics.
From this context, Paul describes his experience and practice for getting people involved - from the way he thinks about the world, and the way business works, to the role of repetition and persistence. From the role of ‘small p’ politics, selling and language, to the value of different kinds of policy, including science-based policy.
Today, Paul continues to work entrepreneurially in the area of 'sustainability’ (a difficult word!) via a variety of roles, including co-hosting a weekly climate podcast: Outrage + Optimism.
Michele Blair talks to host Pete Burden. Michele is the sustainability manager for the small city of Laurel in Maryland, USA. It’s a small city, but has its own governance and the ability to write its own legislation. So there’s an opportunity to keep things small, and respond positively despite the sometimes difficult bigger picture.
Michelle’s passionate about, and deeply involved in, the practicalities of integrating sustainability into the community and city. For her there are several parts to that: working closely with all the stakeholders, and trying to find ‘wiggle room’.
With citizens that means involving the community through focus groups, other events, and making it fun. With politicians that means due diligence – being really clear on the benefits. It’s also about avoiding the pitfalls of gaining authority through hierarchy and finding ways to give everyone a voice, allowing people to grow and breathe.
The draft Sustainability Plan was presented to the Mayor, city council, and the community during a launch party in January 2025.
Bob Eggington, veteran of media, ‘new’, ‘old’ and international, speaks to host Pete Burden about his career in news organisations large and small. About his management practice, honed over 57 years of working. And the importance of context, of kindness, and of ‘ends’ for achieving a healthy transfer of power.
Bob reveals his approach to leadership and management, and communication, and how saying important things honestly and with candour can be beneficial in surprising ways, even though this may not be obvious until many years later. How we all plant seeds for learning – and affect each other. And the relationship between economics and politics and the media, particularly in developing, post-conflict or transitioning countries.
Angela Fell talks to host Pete Burden about moving from a service-based, charity-type model to mutual support in and by communities themselves. How to actually move to 'asset-based community development', what that involves, and her journey stepping outside the ‘system’ to do this.
Angela covers her experience of growing up in a working class environment in the North of the UK, especially as a woman. About trying to bring about change with people labelled as 'in need', first from a service perspective. Her emerging understanding that the systems involved can inadvertently preserve the status quo. Through trying to implement the ‘Radical Help’ approach back in 2011, and the transition to building the ‘collective power muscle’ of communities. And about her belief in keeping things small and agile.
Maff Potts, founder and director of the Association of Camerados, speaks to host Pete Burden about the Camerados movement, based on mutuality, a radically different way for people to experience power, and the relationships (and, shush, great outcomes) that emerge from that.
Maff describes some of the hard won lessons learnt during the 10 years of Camerados, how the organisation stays small in order to minimise the dangers of neglecting mission in favour of survival, and his experience with the tyranny of structurelessness in the early days.
Maff reveals how he has worked to change his behaviour in interactions with others – from sitting on a sofa, and knowing nothing, and sitting on the pavement to level things up with someone experiencing homelessness. To the internal, personal work he has had to do to reduce the need to ‘fix people’.
If you’re interested in starting a Public Living Room start here!
Swarnalakshmi Ravi speaks to host Pete Burden - about her experiences as a young person involved in the Inclusive Neighbourhood Children’s Parliament in India and becoming a spokesperson for this approach at the United Nations in New York and Geneva.
Swarna describes how Sociocracy (a theory and practice of governance) is used by the Children’s Parliament, and how its principles support democracy. She talks about her own childhood experiences of power and about how her values help her address the risks of ‘ego’. She also covers how she has tried to bring the principles of Sociocracy into more traditional organisational structures, and points to the felt sense of power - and the real joy of being heard and really hearing others.
Huda Jawad, Co-founder and Executive Director of the Faith & VAWG Coalition, and one the 'Three Hijabis' speaks to host Pete Burden about power, politics and faith and the links between them.
From a summary of the transcript: "Huda Jawad is a passionate activist and campaigner against violence against women and girls. She co-founded the Faith and VAWG Coalition to address the barriers faced by women of faith in accessing justice and support. The 'Three Hijabis' are known for organising a petition to ban racists from football, following the 2020 Euros.
Huda shares her personal experiences as a refugee, a woman of faith, and a woman of colour, and highlights how she learned to speak back against power imbalances, use her experience to fight for change, and how she maintains her resilience." (Gemini)
Simon Fanshawe, author, partner at a diversity and inclusion consultancy, and experienced NED talks to host Pete Burden about Healthy Power and tells a few stories and jokes along the way.
From a summary of the transcript: "Simon emphasises the importance of shifting the focus from superficial diversity practices to tangible outcomes. He highlights the significance of understanding and addressing the barriers faced by different groups and also emphasises the importance of leadership in setting the tone for inclusive practices and creating a culture where everyone feels valued and empowered." (Gemini)
Richard Lee, who describes himself as a community based activist, talks to host Pete Burden about power and the importance of framing and ‘protocols’.
From a summary of the transcript: "Richard describes his experiences with power, from feeling powerless as a child to using his power to help his community. He highlights the importance of creating spaces for diverse voices to be heard and working collaboratively with others, even when there are power imbalances." (Gemini)
Links: Justspace - an informal alliance of around 80 community groups, campaigns and concerned independent organisations formed to act as a voice for Londoners at grass-roots level. And Fairville - an international and collaborative research project aiming to address embedded urban inequalities.
Chenai Mukumba, Executive Director of the Tax Justice Network Africa, talks to host Pete Burden about power and influence: from policy to the personal.
From a summary of the transcript: "Chenai shares her journey of discovering power, from a student inspired by a classmate’s charisma to leading a pan-African advocacy network. She reflects on the emotional challenges of navigating influence, balancing dominance with grace, and confronting systemic imbalances. Chenai highlights Africa’s untapped potential, advocating for self-awareness and education to reshape its global narrative. Her story is one of growth, resilience, and a passion for empowering others." (ChatGPT)
Matt Scott is Chief Exec at Thames Life, in London, but sometimes describes himself simply as a community worker. He talks to host Pete Burden about his experiences of power.
From a summary of the transcript: Matt emphasises the importance of building relationships and creating spaces for people to talk about their concerns and work together. He acknowledges the challenges of working in a system with unequal power dynamics but emphasises the importance of improvisation and collective action. He ends with some important points about executive capture, and the constraints brought by financialisation. (Gemini)
Suhair Fakhoury is a coach and an artist. She speaks to host John Buck about being in the process of Healthy Power, and especially the experience of connection.
From a summary of the transcript: “Suhair describes a creative process that connects people and allows them to co-create. The key idea is that we can be aware of this process and participate in it deliberately. Suhair describes her experience of this and how it has allowed her to co-create with others, even strangers, and have a meaningful experience.” (Gemini)
Daniel Thornton works in global health and education, is currently at the World Health Organisation, and talks to host Pete Burden about his experiences growing Healthy Power.
From a transcript of the recording: “According to Daniel, healthy power emerges when people are listened to and their expertise is valued regardless of their position in the hierarchy. He also points to the value of truthful conversations, where people feel safe to express their ideas, and when an organization is willing to learn from its mistakes and adapt its approach. He argues for curiosity, openness and humour.” (Gemini)
Shani Newbold talks to host Pete Burden about Healthy Power, and leadership.
Shani is the founder of Cadence Partners and uses her energy to address inequality through fairer and more transparent executive recruitment processes.
From a summary of the transcript: "Shani talks about how her early experiences of power, shaped by her race, gender and social class, inform her work. The importance of empathy, inclusion, ethics, and collaboration. And in her own organisation, and with clients, the importance of improving leadership and leadership selection." (Gemini)
Polly Robbins talks to host Pete Burden about her experiences of Healthy Power, while working in and with worker co-ops and other flatter hierarchy organisations. Polly is a community builder focused on social impact, and is a Director-Member at Outlandish and Founder-Manager of SPACE4.
From a summary of the transcript: "The discussion centres around the concept of healthy power and how it can be applied in organizations and communities. Polly emphasizes the importance of equitable power distribution, active listening, and self-awareness in fostering healthy power dynamics. She also discusses the role of education and personal growth in developing a deeper understanding of power and privilege." (Gemini)
Roy Trivedy talks to host Pete Burden about his experiences of Healthy Power, while working in the United Nations and several third-sector organisations. Roy has been in international development for more than 30 years.
From a summary of the transcript: "Roy Trivedy shares his experiences working in international development and how he has used power to bring about positive change. He emphasises the importance of understanding power dynamics, using it responsibly, and working collaboratively with others to achieve shared goals. The discussion also highlights the challenges of balancing individual and collective power, as well as the role of external actors in influencing social change." (Gemini)
Stephanie Rochford, one of the directors at Publish What You Pay (PWYP), talks to host Pete Burden about her experiences of Healthy Power in a global network of organisations.
From a summary of the transcript: "Publish What You Pay (PWYP) is a global campaign for transparency in the oil, gas, and mining sectors – it’s a network of over 1000 NGOs working in 50 countries. Steph highlights the importance of understanding power dynamics and how this helps to harness collective power, while ensuring that power is distributed fairly and equitably. This involves addressing issues such as time zone differences, cultural nuances, and resource disparities. Steph also emphasizes the importance of slowing down, listening, and being open to different perspectives to foster a more inclusive and collaborative approach." (Gemini)
Zak Mensah, co-Chief Executive Officer of Birmingham Museum Trust talks to host Pete Burden about his experiences of bringing Healthy Power to BMT - the largest independent charitable trust of museums in the United Kingdom.
From a summary of the transcript: "Zak touches on the importance of trust, and talks about his awareness of his own power and how it can be used and misused. BMT is trying to distribute power more evenly by using circles and consent-based decision making, but Zak sees this as a journey, and sees the challenges: sometimes people find it hard to take responsibility. But overall, Zak believes that giving people more power can lead to better decision making, a healthier organisation, and more flourishing employees." (Gemini)