What does it take to lead a thriving church in one of America's most unchurched cities?
Brenden Brown, pastor of Heirs Church in San Francisco, shares his journey of 29 venues in 8 years, navigating a gracious transition from Hillsong, and learning that our identity as sons and daughters transforms how we do ministry.
Brenden's stories—from giving away his jacket to a stranger in Trader Joe's to divine Uber conversations—reveal what happens when leaders tune into the Holy Spirit and see people with God's eyes. He discusses the challenges of post-Christian contexts, the mobilizing power of personal story, and why leading from identity rather than duty changes everything.
Whether you're in a hard place or a thriving season, this conversation will remind you why knowing who you are shapes how you lead and serve.
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Eric Bryant Website: https://ericbryant.org/
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Eric Bryant LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-bryant-397003172/
Eric Bryant X: https://x.com/ericbryant
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
What's the difference between church growth and real discipleship? Pastor Bob Reed found out the hard way—even as his Florida church was thriving numerically, he realized something was missing. That realization led him on a journey that would reshape his entire approach to ministry.
Now leading CyLife Church in Texas, Bob shares how he moved from stage-focused ministry to relational discipleship, why he had to confess to his congregation that his relationship with Jesus had become "professional," and what it actually takes to create a culture of disciple-making.
This is a conversation about getting honest with yourself, your calling, and what success really means in ministry.
Get a chance to win a free copy of 'Real Life Discipleship' by Jim Putman by signing up for our newsletter at innovativechurchleaders.org!
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Eric Bryant LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-bryant-397003172/
Eric Bryant X: https://x.com/ericbryant
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
The mission field has come to us, but are we paying attention?
Samuel Teka from Diaspora Network talks about the awakening happening as North American churches realize immigrant communities aren't just people to serve, but partners who have something vital to teach us about Kingdom community.
Sam shares his story as a second-generation Ethiopian-American navigating the cultural gap between generations, and why that "in-between space" is exactly where God is raising up bridge-builders. You'll hear about Ethiopian coffee culture, why intentionality matters, and how missionaries from the East are now coming West.
This isn't about politics—it's about the Revelation 7:9 vision becoming reality right in our neighborhoods and it’s about loving our neighbor as Jesus called us to do.
Learn more about Diaspora Network: diaspora-network.com
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
Samuel Teka from the Diaspora Network joins us to talk about something too many churches are missing: the incredible gift immigrant churches bring to North America. Sam shares his journey as a second-generation Ethiopian-American and why building bridges between first and second-gen believers matters more than ever.
You'll hear about the power of open-door hospitality, why missionaries are now coming from the East to reach the West, and what real discipleship looks like in a close-knit community.
If you've been wondering how to engage immigrant communities in your area or empower the next generation in your church, this conversation offers practical wisdom without the politics.
Learn more about Diaspora Network: diaspora-network.com
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
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Are you measuring the wrong things in your church? Warren Bird, renowned author and church researcher, joins us to challenge conventional thinking about church growth and success.
Fresh from analyzing data on thousands of churches, Warren shares encouraging news about post-pandemic recovery, the rising impact on young adults, and why the focus needs to shift from attendance numbers to genuine attachment and belonging.
This conversation digs into practical leadership issues: How do you stop being the minister and become the minister maker? What does it really take to break through growth barriers? And why is improving your communication one of the most important investments you can make?
If you've ever felt stuck doing all the ministry yourself or wondered how to prepare your church for an increasingly diverse future, this episode offers both hope and practical next steps.
Get a chance to win a free copy of Warren Bird's book "Becoming a Future Ready Church" when you sign up for our email newsletter at innovativechurchleaders.org.
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
What if the key to church growth isn't doing more ministry yourself, but empowering others to step in?
In this episode, Dr. Eric Bryant sits down with prolific author and researcher Warren Bird to discuss the surprising trends in post-pandemic church health, the shift from attendance to attachment, and why the future of ministry depends on raising up the next generation of leaders.
Warren shares insights from his latest book "Becoming a Future Ready Church" and unpacks practical wisdom about breaking growth barriers, building diverse communities, and why your communication skills matter more than you think.
Whether you're leading a church of 50 or 5,000, this conversation will challenge and encourage you to think differently about what success really looks like.
Get a chance to win a free copy of Warren Bird's book "Becoming a Future Ready Church" when you receive our email newsletter. Sign up for our newsletter at innovativechurchleaders.org
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
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Mandy Santos of Echo Church shares what spiritual formation looks like in Silicon Valley—one of the most de-churched regions in America. If you're wrestling with how to reach skeptics while discipling believers, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom.
Mandy reveals why everything they expected about hostile secular culture turned out to be wrong. She walks through navigating major transitions, including when founding pastors Andy and Stacy Wood left for Saddleback Church, and shares the simple shift that's transformed their discipleship approach. You'll hear about their monthly "encounter nights" that create space for deeper formation without alienating Sunday seekers.
After 17 years of ministry, Mandy offers honest insights on what's working. From helping atheists ask hard questions to rethinking how we introduce new believers to prayer, this episode gives you approaches you can implement in your context.
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What does ministry look like in one of America's most de-churched regions? This conversation explores the realities of leading in Silicon Valley, where traditional assumptions about secular culture often miss the mark.
Mandy Santos, Spiritual Formation Pastor at Echo Church, shares honest reflections on ministry in the Bay Area:
Why secular communities may be more receptive than expected
Navigating major leadership transitions while maintaining momentum
Building environments where skeptics can ask genuine questions
The shift from attractional models to formation-focused ministry
Rethinking first steps in discipleship and spiritual practices
Whether you're leading in a post-Christian context or want to create more intentional space for spiritual formation in your church, this conversation offers practical insights on balancing accessibility with depth.
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Eric Bryant LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-bryant-397003172/
Eric Bryant X: https://x.com/ericbryant
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
What if everything you've heard about declining church attendance is about to change?
Luke LeFevre joins us to share what he's witnessing across North America—from college campuses to historic churches like Saddleback—and why he believes we're on the cusp of a 60-year movement of God.
In this conversation, Luke pulls back the curtain on what happened at Saddleback's sacred assembly, shares his encounter with Andy Wood that started it all, and explains why Gen Z is now the most frequent church-attending generation in the West.
But here's the challenge: Are our churches actually ready for what's coming?
Luke doesn't hold back on what he believes the Western church has lost—and what needs to be restored before we can sustain a genuine move of God's Spirit.
Whether you're a pastor feeling isolated in your hunger for revival or a church leader wondering what the next decade holds, this conversation will stir something in you.
Learn more about Luke's work at LukeLeFevre.org.
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
Luke LeFevre has been in rooms where God showed up in unexpected ways. From studying historic revivals like the 1950s Hebrides awakening to witnessing Saddleback Church's sacred assembly firsthand, he's watched a pattern emerge—one that suggests we're entering a decades-long season of spiritual renewal in the West.
In this episode, Luke shares:
Why Gen Z is attending church more than any other generation.
The prophetic word he received while flying home from Scotland that changed everything for Saddleback.
What Duncan Campbell's Hebrides revival teaches us about holiness and awakening today.
Why Jesus' words to the church at Ephesus might be the most relevant message for Western churches right now.
His bold prayer for 100 million people to choose to follow Jesus in North America.
If you're a pastor or church leader who's been quietly contending for more—this conversation is for you.
Links:
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@InnovativeChurchLeaders
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Eric Bryant Website: https://ericbryant.org/
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Eric Bryant LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-bryant-397003172/
Eric Bryant X: https://x.com/ericbryant
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
Rich Birch of unSeminary.com breaks down the practical strategies that actually move the needle in church growth. If you've been frustrated by low guest retention or wondering why people aren't inviting their friends, this conversation is packed with actionable insights you can implement this week.
Rich shares surprising data about why traditional marketing is losing its punch and what's replacing it in terms of actual effectiveness. He walks through his approach to building momentum in just 90 days and reveals a simple tweak that even mega-churches overlook. You'll also hear about a follow-up framework that changes everything and discover what churches need to stop saying on Sunday mornings if they want guests to actually take next steps.
Having visited 22 churches and consulted with leaders across the country, Rich is seeing clear patterns in what's working right now. From weekend experiences to connection systems, this episode gives you practical steps you can start implementing immediately.
📚 Get a chance to win Rich's book "Unlocking Your Church's Invite Culture"! Sign up for our newsletter at innovativechurchleaders.org
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Rich Birch website: https://unseminary.com/
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
What if the secret to church growth isn't another marketing campaign, but something much simpler?
Rich Birch, church growth consultant, speaker, and author of multiple books, shares eye-opening research that challenges how we think about reaching people—and why the most effective strategy is probably the one you're underutilizing.
Rich walks through his framework for sparking momentum in just 90 days, starting with a shift in how you approach weekend teaching. He shares a story about consulting with a massive church that was missing one crucial element in their services—and how a simple fix created immediate opportunities for people to start inviting their friends.
You'll also hear practical strategies for connecting with new guests, including why the language we commonly use on Sunday mornings might be creating confusion instead of clarity. Rich breaks down what actually works when it comes to gifts, follow-up sequences, and moving people from their first visit to genuine community.
Whether you're ministering in a post-Christian context or seeing some growth, this episode gives you concrete next steps you can implement immediately.
Rich shares practical wisdom on:
Why trust in traditional marketing is declining (and what's rising instead)
The teaching approach that naturally creates invite opportunities
Simple language shifts that remove barriers for first-time guests
A follow-up framework that dramatically increases retention
Real patterns he's seeing from visiting churches across the country
This episode will give you clarity on what actually moves the needle and remind you that sustainable growth is simpler than we think.
Links:
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Eric Bryant Website: https://ericbryant.org/
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Eric Bryant Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ericbryant/
Eric Bryant LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-bryant-397003172/
Eric Bryant X: https://x.com/ericbryant
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
What does it look like to lead a church that's anchored in Jesus when everything around you feels like it's being blown by political winds?
Dr. Derwin Gray, lead pastor of Transformation Church, joins us for an honest conversation about staying focused on the kingdom of God in a divided culture. Derwin challenges us to stop using a 250-year-old country as our biblical filter and instead anchor our churches in first-century gospel truth. The result? A church family that’s unified and a living example of Hope to those around them.
Derwin shares the real secret behind their multi-ethnic church community and why he refuses to let the spirit of the age put him in a box. He talks about his book "Lit Up With Love" and why evangelism isn't about perfecting a sales pitch—it's about living so authentically in God's love that others are naturally drawn to what they see. If you're navigating leadership in these divisive times, this conversation will remind you that people are hungry for the Jesus of Scripture, not a left or right version.
📖 Get a chance to win a book from Derwin! Sign up for our newsletter at innovativechurchleaders.org
Highlights:
0:00 - Introduction and Background of Dr. Derwin Gray
3:40 - Navigating Political Divisions and Focusing on the Kingdom
7:33 - The Hunger for Hope and the Role of the Church
10:08 - The Heart Behind 'Lit Up with Love'
13:10 - Stories of Transformation and Baptism
15:59 - Communicating the Kingdom Without Political Bias
20:36 - Encouragement for Discouraged Pastors
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Dr. Derwin Gray website: https://www.derwinlgray.com/
Dr. Derwin Gray LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derwin-l-gray-63a70b2b1
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
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#church leadership #Derwin Gray #TransformationChurch #pastoralministry #multiethnicchurch #diversity #KingdomofGod #evangelism #politicaldivision #churchgrowth #baptismstories #gospel #churchunity #racialreconciliation #pastoralencouragement #ministryleadership
Dr. N.T. Wright joins us to dismantle Western Christianity's Platonized afterlife theology and reclaim the Bible's actual vision: God renewing all creation. In this essential conversation for pastors and church leaders, Wright explains how the early church absorbed Greek philosophy's "souls escaping to heaven" instead of maintaining the biblical hope for resurrected bodies in a renewed heaven and earth. He traces how this wrong turn led to moralizing salvation, paganizing atonement, and sidelining the church's responsibility for justice, beauty, and reconciliation NOW.
Wright unpacks Ephesians' three-movement vision (1:10, 2:10, 3:10): heaven and earth united in Christ, the church as God's workmanship displaying new creation, and believers revealing God's multi-colored wisdom to spiritual powers. He addresses the "angry God" caricature, clarifies substitutionary atonement, and offers practical wisdom for leading congregations into renewal through prayer, beauty, and courageous witness.
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N.T. Wright Website: https://www.admirato.org/pages/ntw-online
Pastoral Cohort with N.T. Wright: https://innovativechurchleaders.org/cohort/
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
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#NTWright #churchleadership #pastoralministry #newcreationtheology #kingdomofGod #Ephesians #resurrectiontheology #biblicaleschatology #EricBryant #innovativechurchleaders #pastoralcohort #churchrenewal #biblicalworldview
In this episode of the Innovative Church Leaders podcast, Dr. Eric Bryant interviews Paul Johnson and his son Drew Johnson.
Paul served for years as lead pastor of Woodridge Church near Minneapolis. Now he serves as Generosity Pastor and his son Drew leads Mercy Hill Church nearby and Aspen Grove, their network of churches.
They share about the successful succession and their unique way of networking rather than campusing or church planting.
🔥 Top 5 Takeaways:
1. Building a church network requires generosity in leadership which fosters trust and collaboration.
2. Humility is essential for effective leadership, collaboration, and leadership transitions.
3. Shared values and goals strengthen church networks.
4. Effective leadership involves mentoring and supporting others.
5. A clear plan for leadership transition can benefit the entire community.
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🔔 Subscribe & Share:
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Key Moments with Timestamps:
00:00 - Multiplying Churches: A New Approach
01:38 - Interconnectedness in Church Leadership
04:07 - Navigating Independence and Connection
07:55 - Seamless Leadership Transition
09:42 - The Role of Generosity in Leadership
12:39 - Funding and Resource Management for Community Projects
13:16 - The Heart Behind Aspen Grove Network
18:36 - Supporting Young Leaders and Succession Planning
21:36 - Embracing a Grandfather Role in Leadership
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In this episode of the Innovative Church Leaders podcast, Dr. Eric Bryant interviews Dr. Lucy Peppiatt, the President of Westminster Theological Centre in Bristol, England.
Lucy discusses ministry in a post-Christian context, the importance of training the next generation of pastors, and the role of theology in effective ministry. She emphasizes the need for a deeper understanding of God's love and the importance of empowering women in the church. .
🔥 Top 5 Takeaways:
1. Understanding God's love is crucial for discipleship.
2. Empowering women in the church benefits everyone.
3. Shared identity in Christ should supersede political affiliations.
4. Time spent with God is vital for renewal.
5. Studying theology can invigorate one's faith.
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Key Moments with Timestamps:
00:00 - Navigating Ministry in a Post-Christian Context
02:37 - Training the Next Generation of Pastors
05:21 - The Role of Theology in Ministry
08:06 - Empowering Women in the Church
10:56 - The Impact of Political Identity on Faith
13:26 - Encouragement for Tired Leaders
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In this episode of the Innovative Church Leaders podcast, Dr. Eric Bryant interviews Stan Jantz, the Global Ambassador for the Come and See Foundation which funds the global television phenomenon - The Chosen.
Stan discusses the current challenges and opportunities in church leadership, the importance of storytelling in conveying the message of Jesus, the vision behind the series 'The Chosen', and its impact on faith and discipleship.
🔥 Top 5 Takeaways:
1. It's both a challenging and optimistic time for the church.
2. Materialism and atheism are leading to a search for something eternal.
3. Artistry and quality are essential in storytelling.
4. The Chosen aims to be accessible to everyone, everywhere.
5. The current era offers unprecedented opportunities for spreading the gospel.
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🔔 Subscribe & Share:
If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow leaders and friends to help pastors experience and bring renewal.
Key Moments with Timestamps:
00:00 - Navigating Challenges and Opportunities in the Church
02:45 - The Vision Behind The Chosen
05:43 - The Impact of The Chosen on Faith and Discipleship
08:21 - Artistry and Accessibility in Storytelling
11:26 - The Future of The Chosen: Upcoming Seasons and Films
14:07 - Encouragement for Church Leaders and Pastors
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In this episode of the Innovative Church Leaders podcast, Dr. Eric Bryant interviews Glen Scrivener of Speak Life Media and author of The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality and How to Speak Life.
Glen shares about the emerging interest in faith among youth and the importance of empowering laypeople for evangelism.
The conversation also touches on navigating the intersection of politics and the kingdom of God, emphasizing the role of the church in societal change.
🔥 Top 5 Takeaways:
1. The secular narrative is losing its appeal among the youth.
2. People are exploring various spiritual options, including Christianity.
3. Conversations about faith should address the real questions of skeptics.
4. Cultural values like compassion stem from Christian teachings.
5. The church's role is to scatter seeds of faith, not to force conversions.
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• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
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If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow leaders and friends to help pastors experience and bring renewal.
Key Moments with Timestamps:
00:00 - The State of the Church in the UK
07:11 - Emerging Interest in Faith Among Youth
12:14 - Navigating Conversations About Jesus
15:57 - The Importance of Speaking Life
21:39 - The Role of the Church in Society
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In this episode of the Innovative Church Leaders podcast, Dr. Eric Bryant interviews J.D. Pearring, the founder of the Excel Leadership Network.
J.D. shares about the importance of raising up new leaders in the church, the challenges faced by church planters, and the significance of coaching and mentorship in leadership development.
🔥 Top 5 Takeaways:
1. Excel Leadership Network serves church planters and leaders.
2. Older churches are increasingly handing off buildings to younger planters.
3. There's a growing interest among 19 to 29 year olds in church leadership.
4. Unrealistic expectations are a major reason for church plant failures.
5. The church must focus on serving rather than self-preservation.
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• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
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If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow leaders and friends to help pastors experience and bring renewal.
Key Moments with Timestamps:
00:00 - Origins of the Excel Leadership Network
03:20 - Support Systems for Church Planters
06:02 - Raising Up New Leaders
08:54 - Expecting the Unexpected in Leadership
11:32 - Leading and Preaching the Other Way
14:07 - Coaching the Other Way
Head over to innovativechurchleaders.org for additional resources and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes.
#InnovativeChurchLeaders #innovation #KingdomofGod #EricBryant #ChurchLeadership #outreach #Discipleship #Evangelism #ChurchHealth #Pastors #creativity #jesus #christianity #faith #faithinaction #renewal #spiritualawakening #awakening #ExcelLeadershipNetwork #churchplanting #leadershipsupport #coaching #churchgrowth #newleaders #ministrychallenges #leadershipdevelopment #communitybuilding #spiritualvitality #JDPearring
In this episode of the Innovative Church Leaders podcast, Dr. Eric Bryant interviews Jon Chasteen, pastor at Victory Church and founder of Re-Leaders.
Jon shares about rebuilding trust after a pastor's moral failure along with the critical role of re-leaders in church revitalization and raising up leaders.
🔥 Top 5 Takeaways:
1. Building trust takes time and consistent actions.
2. Healing and forgiveness are essential in leadership transitions.
3. Church revitalization is as important as church planting.
4. Empowering staff can lead to greater organizational effectiveness.
5. Re-leaders are running a marathon, not a sprint.
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• YouTube: @InnovativeChurchLeaders
• Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-post-christian-podcast/id1509588357
•Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZeQIrzr2tCMyq1VdwxGNn
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• Instagram: / InnovativeChurchLeaders
🔔 Subscribe & Share:
If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with fellow leaders and friends to help pastors experience and bring renewal.
Key Moments with Timestamps:
03:43 - Building Trust in Leadership
06:23 - The Journey of Re-Leading
09:28 - The Importance of Healing and Humility
12:18 - Empowering Others in Leadership
15:03 - Practical Leadership Insights
Head over to innovativechurchleaders.org for additional resources and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes.
#InnovativeChurchLeaders #innovation #KingdomofGod #EricBryant #ChurchLeadership #outreach #Discipleship #Evangelism #ChurchHealth #Pastors #creativity #jesus #christianity #faith #faithinaction #renewal #spiritualawakening #awakening #ReLeaders #churchrevitalization #rebuildingtrust #moralfailure #churchhurt #churchbetrayal #pastoralencouragement #encouragementforpastors #healing #forgiveness #VictoryChurch #JonChasteen