Home
Categories
EXPLORE
True Crime
Comedy
Business
Society & Culture
Technology
History
Health & Fitness
About Us
Contact Us
Copyright
© 2024 PodJoint
00:00 / 00:00
Sign in

or

Don't have an account?
Sign up
Forgot password
https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Podcasts211/v4/cb/7d/16/cb7d163b-fa11-3458-495f-fd2bc35aa065/mza_2223091631996576202.jpg/600x600bb.jpg
The Non-Billable Podcast
Non-Billable
34 episodes
1 week ago
The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry. Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm - now asking the questions he wished he had when he was practising. Brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.
Show more...
Business
RSS
All content for The Non-Billable Podcast is the property of Non-Billable and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry. Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm - now asking the questions he wished he had when he was practising. Brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.
Show more...
Business
Episodes (20/34)
The Non-Billable Podcast
Quinn Emanuel co-founder John Quinn on building a global disputes powerhouse

John Quinn is one of the most influential figures in modern Big Law. In this episode, he reflects on how Quinn Emanuel grew from a four-lawyer spin-out in Los Angeles into the world’s leading litigation-only firm - which is constantly rated as the the “most feared” firm.

Quinn explains that the disputes-only model wasn’t fully formed on day one, but became a powerful differentiator once the firm realised that “we do one thing and we think we’re the best at that,” rather than trying to be everything to everybody.

A central theme of the conversation is why specialisation - particularly being willing to act against the world’s largest commercial banks - created an “unmet need in the marketplace” that full-service firms couldn’t fill because of conflicts. Quinn also discusses how that focus helped build internal cohesion: “we’re all litigators,” he says, which avoids the fragmentation he sees inside large full-service partnerships.

Quinn offers a candid comparison between litigation in the US and the UK, from the power of depositions and jury trials to the cost structures and role of regulators like the DOJ. He also shares his perspective on the evolution of Big Law, including rising concentration at the top end, the erosion of lockstep, the growth of non-equity partnerships, and why he thinks the business of law itself “hasn’t changed much,” despite constant talk of transformation.

The episode closes with Quinn’s views on AI, private equity investment in law firms, and what actually makes a great lawyer.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

00:55 On launching Law Disrupted and staying busy

03:38 Founding Quinn Emanuel and the early years

05:02 Why Quinn Emanuel became a litigation only firm

08:14 Suing the banks and finding an unmet market niche

09:40 Opening London before the financial crisis

10:07 Building the world’s largest patent litigation practice

11:51 US vs UK litigation and the power of depositions

16:04 Costs, risk and why US litigation works differently

20:52 How Big Law has changed and why the strongest firms win

22:23 Why law is a “stupid business” structurally

24:26 Lockstep, partner pay and the rise of superstar compensation

33:14 Private equity, external capital and law firm ownership

35:11 Why AI won’t replace litigators anytime soon

40:26 What makes a great lawyer and why judgment matters most

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
2 weeks ago
41 minutes 58 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
The US law firm shaking up London - with partner pay Big Law rivals can't match

Pierson Ferdinand launched in January 2024 in what it says was the largest law firm debut in US history - starting with around 130 partners and growing to more than 270 in under two years. In this episode, co-founders Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explain the model behind what they call an “AI-native,” fully distributed, partner-only law firm.

They break down how the structure works: no physical offices, every lawyer signs a partnership agreement, and compensation is decided by a formula-based algorithm that updates in real time. Partners keep a far greater share of their billings than in Big Law, with Michael noting that most lawyers who join “earn 2 to 3x what they were earning” at traditional firms. Pay is completely transparent: every partner can see every other partner’s earnings inside the firm’s internal app.

A big part of the model is technology. The firm mandates firm-wide licences for Harvey AI and uses additional tools across the business to automate both back-office processes and junior-level work - something they say they’ve “replaced almost all of” already. AI is now part of standard workflows: summarising due diligence, producing first drafts, organising deal terms and creating client-ready matrices and charts.

Michael and Joel also discuss their London expansion - already more than 20 fee-earners and growing - and their recruitment pitch: a chance to escape the traditional hierarchy, avoid massive infrastructure costs, and build a practice with more autonomy and more upside. “Happy lawyers make better lawyers,” Joel says. “We’ve been purpose-built for people who want something different.”

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:00 Introducing Pierson Ferdinand & the Founders

02:20 How the Firm Launched as the Largest Debut in US History

03:37 Inside the Distributed, Partner-Only Model

04:29 How Partnership, Compensation & the “Pro Algorithm” Work

06:48 Why Remote-First Makes the Economics Work

07:22 Firm vs Partner Clients & How Work Is Shared

08:40 How Matters Are Staffed Without Associates

10:11 Horizontal Integration & Internal Work-Sharing

11:16 The Pitch to Clients: Big-Law Quality at One-Third Less

13:01 The Firm’s AI Strategy - Harvey & Beyond

15:58 Could This Model Work Without AI?

17:13 What Lawyers Want: Frustrations With Traditional Big Law

18:23 London Launch: Practice Areas & Early Momentum

21:14 Competing in London’s Hyper-Competitive Market

22:19 The Pitch to London Laterals

24:17 Can Partners Earn as Much as at Kirkland or Paul Weiss?

27:02 Radical Transparency: Everyone Sees Everyone’s Pay

28:02 The Big Catch - Why This Model Isn’t for Everyone

30:08 Growth Plans for the Next Five Years

31:43 Culture, Community & Why “Happy Lawyers Make Better Lawyers”

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
3 weeks ago
32 minutes 50 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Leaving Big Law to start an AI-enabled boutique

In this episode, we speak with Simon Leaf - a former Mishcon de Reya partner who has launched Three Points Law, a tech-enabled boutique focused on technology, sport and commercial/IP work alongside fellow former Mishcon lawyer Tom Murray.

After 15 years in Big Law, Simon left to build a firm that uses AI from day one and is structured for the kind of fast, high-volume commercial work he handles.

Simon explains why the traditional model no longer fits. As his hourly rate rose and teams grew around him, he felt further from clients and constrained by incentives tied to billable hours. At Three Points, he’s leaning into value-driven pricing and using AI to cut out most junior-level work so he and co-founder Tom can stay close to clients and move faster.

He shares how the firm is using Legora and other AI tools across the workflow - from business development and fee proposals to standardised contract review processes. The tech isn’t perfect, he says, but in the hands of experienced lawyers it’s powerful enough that he’s “100%” confident it replaces the need for junior hires. The early traction has been strong enough that they’re already recruiting senior lawyers instead.

Simon also breaks down the mechanics of starting a modern boutique: partnering with Excello for back-office and regulatory support, avoiding external capital to stay client-focused, and building a culture where he can do high-quality work without the pressures of Big Law. His advice to others thinking of making the leap? If you have the relationships and the appetite to do things differently, “go for it.”

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:00 Simon’s Background

01:56 Why Three Points Law?

03:09 Life at Mishcon & Leading the Sports Group

03:46 Inside Premier League Player Contracts

06:23 Why Big Law No Longer Fit

09:10 The Billable Hour Problem

10:58 Going All-In on AI from Day One

13:23 How AI Replaces Junior Work

16:23 Moving Away from the Billable Hour

19:12 Why Human Lawyers Still Matter

20:18 Will More Boutiques Break Away?

21:58 Three Points’ Vision and Culture

23:18 How They Set Up the Firm

27:41 Advice for Aspiring Boutique Founders

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
4 weeks ago
28 minutes 22 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Inside $1.8bn Legora: Alex Fortescue-Webb on the legal AI platform race

Alongside Harvey, Legora has quickly become a frontrunner in the legal AI platform race, offering lawyers a suite of productivity tools for contract review, drafting, legal research and large-scale document analysis. Its rise has been startlingly fast.

Founded just two years ago, Legora hit a $1.8 billion valuation in its October funding round and has signed a wave of major UK firms this year alone.

Today on the podcast, we’re joined by Alex Fortescue-Webb, Legora’s head of UK and Ireland and head of legal engineering. Alex began his career as an M&A lawyer at CMS before moving into legal operations and managed services roles at BCG, Axiom, Thomson Reuters and EY.

Alex breaks down what Legora actually does: reviewing and comparing documents in seconds, handling heavy diligence exercises, and assisting with drafting directly inside Word. He also talks through the current limits of legal AI - especially the challenge of missing context - and why complex tasks still need to be broken down into smaller steps.

The conversation also covers Legora’s new Portal product, which lets firms expose richer, AI-powered work product to clients and offer controlled self-serve tools built on their own IP.

Alex argues this shift will make knowledge management even more critical as delivery becomes more productised. Finally, Alex discusses Legora’s rapid momentum with leading firms, the company’s US push and recent funding round, and how he views the competitive landscape. His focus: not beating rivals, but driving real adoption so AI becomes embedded in how lawyers actually work.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:00 Welcome and Alex’s Role at Legora

01:13 Inside Legal Engineering: Ex-Lawyers as the Bridge to AI

03:20 What Legora Actually Does for Lawyers

05:41 SPA vs Term Sheet: A Practical Legora Use Case

07:48 Who’s Using Legora Most (And How Usage Varies)

09:10 Where Firms See the Biggest Time Savings

11:12 The Limits of Legal AI Today: Context and Zero Data Retention

13:13 Solving the Context Problem and Future Integrations

14:25 Portal: Rethinking Law Firm-Client Collaboration

19:01 Productising Know-How and the Future of Knowledge Management

22:20 Legora’s Growth Story and Adoption Playbook

25:45 Funding, US Expansion, Harvey - And the Legal AI Platform Race

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
1 month ago
32 minutes 47 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
How a 245-year-old City firm stays ahead: Wedlake Bell’s Camilla Wallace on external capital, culture and what juniors want today

In this episode, we sit down with Camilla Wallace, senior partner of Wedlake Bell. A private client specialist who has spent 18 years at the firm, Camilla talks through Wedlake Bell’s evolution from a sub-20 partner outfit to a headcount of more than 350, why it has stayed a single-office City firm, and how it balances its 245-year heritage with a “1780 but contemporary” mindset.

Camilla explains how she defines the senior partner role today - part chair, part ambassador, part counsellor - and why that structure works alongside managing partner Martin Arnold. She also discusses the firm’s measured stance on international expansion and external capital, and how culture underpins many of those decisions.

A major theme of the conversation is mental health in the legal industry. Camilla shares the data she’s seeing through her work with LawCare, the pressures on junior lawyers, and the initiatives Wedlake Bell has launched, including anonymous learning reviews aimed at building psychological safety across teams.

Finally, Camilla turns to the ‘millionaire exodus’ and what’s driving high-net-worth clients out of the UK. She outlines the broader economic impact, her concerns about policy uncertainty, and her own surprisingly simple idea for tax reform.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:10 Camilla’s Background

01:46 WedLake Bell's Growth and Market Position

04:41 Balancing Heritage and Innovation in Law

08:06 The Role of Technology and AI in Law

10:58 Growth Plans and Market Positioning

12:55 The Senior Partner Role in Modern Law Firms

15:46 Challenges in Leading a Modern Law Firm

19:29 Mental Health in the Legal Industry

24:27 The Changing Expectations of Junior Lawyers

27:28 The Impact of Wealth Migration from the UK

32:15 Taxation and Its Effects on the Legal Sector

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
1 month ago
39 minutes 2 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Why private equity wants a piece of Big Law: Former A&O boss David Morley on what's really happening

Private equity is closing in on the legal industry, and few people have a better vantage point than David Morley, former managing and senior partner at Allen & Overy.

After steering A&O through the 2008 financial crisis, Morley moved into the investment world, chairing a private equity firm and heading up Europe for one of the world’s biggest pension funds.

Earlier this year, he teamed up with fellow A&O alum Wim Dejonghe to launch a consultancy advising law firms and investors on the surge of capital eyeing the profession.

In this episode, David explains why investor sentiment toward law firms has flipped “gradually, then suddenly.” He says private equity’s move into legal mirrors what happened in accountancy a decade ago - starting small before rapidly scaling once investors see proven success. “There’s a level of investor interest we’ve never seen before in the legal sector,” he says.

We talk about what this means for firms of all sizes - from smaller players under pressure to consolidate, to elite firms exploring capital as a growth tool. Morley breaks down how deals are structured, where money would actually go, and why capital brings more than funding.

He also reflects on the limits of the partnership model in funding innovation - and why looming tax and structural changes could accelerate a shift towards more corporate-style models. His message for firm leaders: whether or not you plan to take investment, you need to understand the forces driving it.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:30 Introduction to David

03:06 Navigating the Financial Crisis

07:14 Lessons from Crisis Management

10:07 The Rise of External Investment in Legal

12:50 Changing Perceptions of Legal Investments

17:00 Market Dynamics and Future Trends in Legal Investments

23:23 The Competitive Landscape of Law Firms

24:19 Investment Opportunities in Legal Sector

25:25 The Role of Private Equity in Law Firms

29:43 Innovative Business Models in Legal Services

33:54 Understanding Private Equity Investments

37:34 Strategic Use of Capital in Law Firms

39:44 Private Equity vs. Traditional Financing

42:35 Future Trends in Legal

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
1 month ago
46 minutes 15 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
The $20m law firm partner: Headhunter Siobhán Lewington on the battle for Big Law talent

In this episode, Siobhán Lewington, partner at leading legal headhunter Macrae, joins us to unpack what’s driving the lateral partner market in London.

A former Allen & Overy and Arthur Cox lawyer, Siobhán has more than two decades advising firms on partner hires and team moves giving her a unique view into how City law has changed.

She explains how the market has evolved from the “gentlemen’s agreement” era - when Magic Circle firms avoided poaching from one another - to today’s fiercely competitive landscape dominated by US players. We explore why private capital remains the engine of London’s growth, and what makes a truly competitive platform: from tax and competition support to leverage finance and associate bench strength.

Siobhán also breaks down the New York-London axis, the growing wave of transatlantic mergers, and how firms are positioning themselves in the race to join the global elite. She shares why money alone doesn’t move partners, the real purpose behind multi-year guarantees, and how firms can better integrate lateral hires for long-term success.

Finally, Siobhán offers advice for partners weighing a move - from identifying push and pull factors to finding a genuine sponsor at any prospective firm. Packed with insight on talent strategy and firm identity, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the current state of the London market.

Find out more about Macrae at their website: https://www.macrae.com/

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:00 Introduction to Siobhan and Macrae

02:05 Transition from Law to Recruitment

03:23 Evolution of the London Recruitment Market

07:03 Current State of the London Private Equity Market

11:00 Concentration Risks in Private Equity

13:52 The Changing Landscape of Law Firms

16:26 Growth Areas Beyond Private Capital

19:48 Litigation Market Dynamics

21:53 The New York-London Axis

22:15 Mergers and the New York-London Axis

28:34 The Mechanics of Partner Moves

40:09 Advice for Partners Considering a Move

43:28 Strategies for Firms to Attract Talent

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
2 months ago
46 minutes 46 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Harvey: Inside the $5bn legal AI startup taking over Big Law with chief business officer John Haddock

Harvey has become the poster child of the legal AI boom - used by over half of the top 100 US law firms and backed by more than $700 million in funding. But what does the startup actually do for lawyers day to day, and how is it turning hype into genuine impact inside Big Law firms?

In this episode, John Haddock, Harvey’s chief business officer and a former Stripe exec, takes us inside the company’s rapid scale-up. He explains how a 50-person team of ex-Big Law lawyers works directly with firms to embed AI into real workflows, turning the platform into what he calls “a port of first call” for legal teams.

Haddock also lifts the lid on Harvey’s Advanced Legal Researchers - a team of former Big Law lawyers who benchmark and fine-tune every new model release through what the company calls its Big Law Bench. He shares why data, not hype, is the biggest constraint in AI performance, and how Harvey’s partnership with LexisNexis is helping to close that gap.

We also talk about Harvey’s recent investment from European private equity firm EQT, what the company’s expansion into Europe means for the legal market, and why Haddock saw a viral Reddit thread questioning Harvey’s adoption as a positive sign. “It’s proof we’ve crossed into the mainstream,” he says.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:00 Background on John

03:30 Understanding Harvey's Product and Customer Engagement

06:12 The Role of Chief Business Officer at Harvey

09:02 How Harvey Empowers Lawyers

12:11 Partnership with LexisNexis

17:54 Fine-Tuning AI Models for Legal

21:38 The Buy vs. Build Debate in Legal Tech

24:20 EQT Investment and European Market Expansion

26:37 Competition in the Legal AI Landscape

28:28 Scaling Operations and Talent Acquisition

31:39 Onboarding and Change Management in Legal AI

32:41 Contextualising Legal AI for Enhanced Productivity

36:12 The Future of Integrated Legal Workspaces

38:36 The Reddit Thread and Building Trust in AI

42:24 Challenges of Scaling and Hiring in a Growing Company

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
2 months ago
42 minutes 58 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Lessons from a Big Law leader: Charlie Geffen on US dominance, the rise of private equity, transatlantic mergers, and why striking deals with Trump made sense for some

Few people have had a closer view of the modern City law market than Charlie Geffen. As former senior partner at Ashurst, he helped build one of London’s top private equity practices before moving to Gibson Dunn in 2014, where he became global co-chair of private equity.

Today, he splits his time between chairing the taskforce getting the UK ready for T+1 settlement of financial trades, a senior position at the University of Surrey and occasionally weighing in on the big debates shaping the profession - earlier this year, he sparked discussion with a letter to the Financial Times, defending the decision by some firms to strike deals with the Trump administration.

In this conversation, Charlie looks back at four decades of transformation in Big Law - from globalisation and specialisation to the rise of US firms that now dominate the global elite. He explains why American firms’ structure, scale and domestic market have given them a lasting advantage, and why, in his words, “the global Magic Circle is entirely American.”

We also discuss the major transatlantic mergers reshaping the landscape, including A&O Shearman and Herbert Smith Freehills-Kramer Levin, and what the likes of Ashurst can realistically do to compete. Charlie reflects on his own experience leading Ashurst through its growth years, its failed US merger talks, and how the firm ultimately found its footing through reinvention.

Finally, he shares his take on the next phase of disruption: how AI and private equity could drive a wave of consolidation, why law firms will need far fewer people in future, and why, despite it all, he still sees enduring value in the partnership model - and in knowing exactly what your firm is, and what it isn’t trying to be.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:30 Evolution of the Legal Market

06:45 Comparative Analysis of US and UK Law Firms

09:44 The Rise of US Firms

12:27 Current Landscape of UK Law Firms

17:26 Strategic Insights for UK Firms

19:45 The Rise of Private Equity

22:03 Strategic Decisions in Law Firms

27:23 Transatlantic Mergers and Their Implications

29:45 Big Law Firms Response To Trump Executive Orders

37:51 The Future of the Legal Market: AI and Consolidation

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
2 months ago
43 minutes 1 second

The Non-Billable Podcast
Why Hogan Lovells built a 100-person legal tech company: Sebastian Lach on what clients actually want from AI

Hogan Lovells might not be the first name that comes up in conversations about legal AI, but maybe it should. The firm quietly spun up ELTEMATE, a 100-person legal tech subsidiary, to build tools for clients that go beyond hype and deliver real efficiency gains. At the helm is Sebastian Lach, a Hogan Lovells partner who also leads ELTEMATE.

In this episode, Sebastian talks about how ELTEMATE started with just three people around a table in 2019 and has since scaled into a global team creating client-facing technology. Funded entirely in-house, it now builds everything from AI-driven investigation tools to domain-specific tools tailored to compliance and litigation.

We also dig into Sebastian’s views on legal AI more broadly. He’s sceptical about so-called “Swiss Army knife” platforms and argues that the real value lies in specialist, vertical tools trained on the right data and guided by lawyers who know what good looks like. “Lawyers don’t want 60% answers”, he argues. “They want a tool that gives them the right result at the push of a button.”

It’s a conversation about what happens when a Big Law firm takes tech seriously - balancing risk and innovation - and what clients are really asking for when they demand AI.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

00:50 Sebastian’s Background

02:07 Transitioning from Law to Legal Tech

04:00 Exploring White Collar Crime Law

07:25 The Birth of ELTEMATE

10:34 Funding and Business Model of ELTEMATE

11:39 ELTEMATE's Growth and Structure

13:12 ELTEMATE's Product Suite and Strategy

18:23 The Importance of Domain-Specific Solutions

20:48 Data as a Core Differentiator

24:28 The Future of Legal Tech and Client Needs

28:30 The Vision for ELTEMATE

31:16 Lessons Learned in Legal Tech Innovation

34:48 Concerns About AI in Legal Practice

35:51 Skills for the Future Lawyer

38:02 The Future of the Billable Hour

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
3 months ago
38 minutes 31 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Inside McDermott's $2.8bn merger: London managing partner Aymen Mahmoud on building a transatlantic private capital powerhouse

McDermott has just completed one of the biggest Big Law mergers in recent years, tying up with New York’s Schulte Roth & Zabel to create a $2.8 billion powerhouse sitting just outside the top 10 US firms by revenue. The deal was wrapped up in just three months - record speed by law firm standards - and is already producing results.

In this episode, we sit down with Aymen Mahmoud, McDermott’s London managing partner, to get the inside view on how the merger came together, why culture was as important as strategy, and what the combined platform means for clients on both sides of the Atlantic.

He explains why he calls it a “marriage of conviction” and why the firm is betting big on private capital as the driver of its next phase of growth.

We also dig into the London story: how Schulte’s top-tier funds practice changes McDermott’s position in the market, the firm’s plans for a new Mayfair office in 2028, and the ambition to be on every top client’s speed dial for private capital work.

Along the way, Aymen shares candid insights on talent, pay, and how McDermott is trying to do things differently - from matching New York comp in London to giving billable credit for mindfulness.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:15 The McDermott-Schulte Merger

07:07 Cultural Integration and Success Metrics

12:45 Strategic Growth in London

18:42 Talent Acquisition and Retention

24:40 Leadership and Personal Growth

30:43 Future Vision for McDermott

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
3 months ago
37 minutes 36 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Why Hill Dickinson sponsored Everton's new stadium: Peter Jackson on bold marketing bets and lessons from 20 years at the top

Hill Dickinson made headlines earlier this year with one of the boldest law firm marketing moves in recent memory: a multi-million pound deal to put its name on Everton’s new stadium in Liverpool.

In this episode, Peter Jackson - the firm’s long-time managing partner and CEO - takes us inside the decision, what it means for brand recognition, and why giving back to the city was part of the rationale.

Over nearly two decades leading Hill Dickinson, Jackson steered the firm through both rapid growth and tough choices. He recalls the pivotal moment in 2016 when the insurance practice, once a cornerstone of the business, became a drag on profits - and how the bold decision to sell it to Keoghs reshaped the firm’s future. His mantra: be brave, and get your partners onside.

We also explore how Jackson approached culture and values, from rejecting lucrative lateral hires that didn’t fit, to hands-on leadership built around trust and constant communication. For him, sustainable growth always came back to three basics: people, clients and cash.

Finally, Jackson shares his take on the wider market: the rise of external capital in law, the challenges and opportunities it brings, and what he thinks firms often get wrong about private equity investment.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:30 Peter’s Background and Shipping Law

04:13 The World of Superyachts and Monaco Expansion

06:16 Hill Dickinson in the 1980s: From Liverpool Roots to London Growth

09:03 Leadership Challenges and the Keoghs Transaction

12:08 Strategy, Profitability and the Post-2016 Pivot

14:32 Culture and Values: Building a Cohesive Firm

16:09 The Changing Role of Managing Partner

19:06 Hands-On Leadership and Partner Communication

21:18 Talent, Lateral Hires and Protecting Culture

23:18 Defining Star Partners and Building Teams

25:28 The Everton Stadium Deal: Bold Marketing in Law

30:23 Brand Recognition, Recruitment and Giving Back to Liverpool

35:05 External Capital in Law: Opportunities and Risks

43:12 Leadership Lessons: People, Clients, Cash

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
3 months ago
46 minutes 14 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
'The reality is very different': KPMG legal chief Stuart Bedford on what people get wrong about the Big Four’s legal ambitions

What role do the Big Four really play in the legal market, and how different are they from traditional firms? In this episode, we sit down with Stuart Bedford, global head of legal at KPMG, to get a first-hand view of how one of the world’s largest professional services organisations is approaching the delivery of legal services.

Stuart reflects on his own career journey, qualifying at Linklaters, building one of the City’s leading corporate practices, and eventually stepping into leadership at KPMG. He explains how his experience across multiple disciplines and jurisdictions shaped his perspective on what clients truly need from their lawyers.

We dig into what sets KPMG Law apart - why they’re not chasing the mega M&A deals that grab headlines, but instead focusing on areas where law, technology, and multidisciplinary teams intersect. From entity management and post-merger integration, to regulatory compliance and legal managed services at scale, Stuart outlines a model that looks very different to Big Law.

Finally, Stuart discusses KPMG’s expansion into the US via an Arizona ABS licence, the firm’s Legal Reimagined programme, and the opportunities created by technology, data and global delivery. If you’ve ever wondered how a Big Four legal arm competes without playing the traditional law firm game, this conversation offers a look inside.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:15 Introduction & Stuart’s Early Career Path

03:18 Changing Specialisation in Law Firms

05:35 Why Stuart Moved to KPMG

08:32 Rethinking the Big Four’s Legal Offering

13:14 Post-Merger Integration & Entity Management

16:38 Technology, Data & Legal Reimagined

21:17 Delivering Managed Legal Services at Scale

25:39 Talent, Culture & Multidisciplinary Teams

29:18 Embedding Legal Within the Wider KPMG Business

31:40 Have the Big Four’s Legal Dreams Materialised?

33:31 US Expansion & the Arizona ABS Licence

38:02 Looking Ahead: The Future of KPMG Law

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
3 months ago
38 minutes 1 second

The Non-Billable Podcast
'Some firms won't survive': Simmons senior partner Julian Taylor on the legal AI reckoning, NQ pay wars and the US firm challenge

Julian Taylor is senior partner at Simmons & Simmons and one of the City’s most highly regarded employment lawyers. He’s spent over 25 years at the firm and has had a front-row seat to the transformation of the legal profession. In this episode, he shares candid views on the forces reshaping the industry, from the rise of AI to the battle for the best talent.

Julian explains how Simmons is embedding AI into its work - from in-house tools like “Percy” to partnerships with legal tech providers - and why firms that fail to adapt could struggle to survive. He also talks about how AI is changing pricing models, client expectations, and the types of work law firms can take on.

Julian calls newly qualified lawyer pay in some parts of the market “crazy”, warns about the talent market distortions it creates, and explains why Simmons takes a different approach to competing for junior lawyers. He also reflects on the impact of US firms in London and how their intense profitability targets are reshaping the market.

We finish with a discussion on culture and flexibility - including the unique part-time arrangement Julian has maintained for nearly two decades - and why he believes adaptability and openness to change are now non-negotiable for any lawyer building a long-term career.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction

01:15 Julian’s Background and Career

03:21 Simmons' Financial Performance and Sector Focus

06:33 The Role of AI in Law

11:15 Pricing and Client Expectations in the Age of AI

15:10 Building vs. Buying Legal Tech Solutions

19:13 The Future of AI in the Legal Profession

24:58 Training the Next Generation of Lawyers

28:37 Attracting and Retaining Talent in a Changing Landscape

32:39 Flexible Work Arrangements and Work-Life Balance

37:45 ‘Crazy’ NQ Pay And The Impact of US Firms on the Legal Market

43:05 Looking Ahead: Goals for the Future

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
4 months ago
44 minutes 44 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Why investors are eyeing law firms: Burford Capital’s Travis Lenkner on how external capital is changing the market and why Burford prefers minority stakes

Private equity and other forms of external capital are moving into the legal sector - a shift that is very likely to reshape law firm strategy. In this episode, we speak with Travis Lenkner, chief development officer at Burford Capital, the world’s largest provider of legal finance, about why investors are increasingly eyeing law firms and what that means for the market.

Travis shares his unique perspective, having worked as a litigator at Gibson Dunn, served as senior counsel at Boeing, co-founded litigation funder Gerchen Keller Capital (later acquired by Burford), and launched his own law firm before rejoining Burford in 2024.

Now focused on exploring potential equity investments in law firms, Travis explains the forces driving investor interest - from the UK’s long-standing ABS regime to growing recognition of law as a professional services market ripe for consolidation and technology-led transformation.

We discuss the different ends of the market attracting attention, from private equity-backed regional roll-ups to strategic growth capital for top-tier global firms. Travis explains why Burford prefers minority stakes, the kinds of structures that make sense for law firms wary of losing control, and how outside capital can fund strategic hires, technology investment and geographic expansion. He also tackles the challenges of the traditional partnership model and the cultural shifts required to align incentives with long-term growth.

Finally, Travis offers insights on the evolving US market - where regulatory constraints mean law firm investment often looks different - and why he expects both markets to develop rapidly in the next five years.

Chapters

00:45 Introduction to Travis And Career Journey

02:31 Understanding Burford Capital's Role in Legal Finance

04:50 The Financial Model Behind Litigation Funding

05:46 The Rise of External Capital in Law Firms

06:12 Investment Strategies for Law Firms

09:13 The Future of Law Firms in a Competitive Market

13:46 The Evolving Landscape of Law Firm Investments

17:28 Navigating Risks in Law Firm Dynamics

19:20 Understanding Investor Exit Strategies

24:14 Burford's Unique Position in Legal Investments

25:26 Targeting Growth in Boutique Law Firms

29:35 The Future of the US Legal Market

34:24 Burford's Portfolio in Five Years

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
4 months ago
37 minutes 24 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
The $100m legal AI startup transforming in-house teams: Wordsmith CEO Ross McNairn on turning legal into a revenue driver

Ross McNairn is the founder and CEO of Wordsmith, one of the fastest-growing legal AI startups in Europe. In this episode, Ross shares how Wordsmith is rethinking the in-house legal function - not just with automation, but with a new model for how legal teams can triage and respond to the rest of the business using AI agents.

We talk through the challenges of in-house legal teams, why Wordsmith is laser-focused on corporate legal rather than law firms, and how AI assistants are shifting legal from being perceived as a blocker to a true business enabler. Ross also explains how their customers - including companies like Trustpilot - are using the platform to improve responsiveness and efficiency across functions.

Ross opens up about raising $25 million from Index Ventures, how Wordsmith became the fastest Scottish company to hit a $100 million valuation, and why they’ve been disciplined about staying lean, product-led, and focused on usage over hype. He also shares his thoughts on legal AI funding trends, the law firm vs in-house tech split, and the future of generalist vs vertical solutions in the space.

Whether you’re a GC thinking about legal AI adoption, a lawyer eyeing a career move into tech, or just curious about how legal is changing from the inside, this is a conversation with a founder building at the forefront of the industry.

Chapters

00:45 From Law to Software

00:53 The Role of AI in Legal Workflows

02:11 Introducing Wordsmith

05:08 AI Agents: Enhancing Legal Productivity

08:08 Customer Success Stories: Real-World Impact of Wordsmith

10:57 Sales Strategy: Building Trust in Legal Tech

13:55 Funding and Future Plans: Scaling Wordsmith

16:30 Building a Lean Company

17:27 Hiring for Legal Intelligence

19:06 Motivations For People Joining Wordsmith

20:50 Competitors in the Legal Tech Space

21:17 Wordsmith's Suite of Tools

22:16 Future of Legal Tech Solutions

23:38 Impact of Recent Partnerships in Legal Tech

26:02 Data Needs for In-House Legal Teams

28:00 Investment Boom in Legal Tech

29:27 Wordsmith's Strategy for Success

32:31 Trends in Legal Tech

33:25 Hiring Challenges at Wordsmith

34:01 Vision for Wordsmith in 2030

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
5 months ago
34 minutes 54 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Private equity is circling the legal industry: Rosenblatt rescue dealmaker Adil Taha on law firm deals, PE strategy and the exit problem

In this episode, we’re joined by Adil Taha, a former investment banker, private equity executive and one of the most experienced PE figures operating in the UK legal sector today.

Adil has led or been involved in multiple private equity transactions across professional services, including the turnaround of several law firms and the recent high-profile rescue of Rosenblatt out of failing listed group RBG Holdings.

We dive into the mechanics of private equity in law - how deals are structured, what PE firms are really looking for, and why so many are focused on buy-and-build strategies in the regional market. Adil gives a candid assessment of what’s working, what isn’t, and why we’ve yet to see a successful PE exit in UK legal.

He also unpacks the challenges of law firm listings, the hidden risks of the full-service model, and why relationship-driven businesses don’t always fit neatly into financial engineering. Finally, we talk about the opportunity Adil sees at the top end of the market: building a lean, high-performance boutique from scratch. For investors, firm leaders, and ambitious lawyers alike, this is an inside look at how private capital is reshaping the business of law.

Chapters

00:45 Adil’s Background and First Law Firm Rescue

02:15 The Rosenblatt Rescue

03:51 The Rise of PE in Legal Post-COVID

06:27 Where PE is Investing Today

09:09 Exit Challenges and Lack of Trade Sales

11:45 Why Law Firm IPOs Don’t Work

14:39 The Culture Clash Between Law and Public Markets

16:08 Trade Sales vs PE: Who’s Buying?

19:03 Why MBOs May Be the Only Exit Path

21:21 Could PE Ever Buy a Top 30 Firm?

23:09 Lessons from DWF and Who’s Vulnerable

25:39 Exit Options for Larger Firms

27:39 How PE Transactions Work in Practice

30:39 How Deals Are Structured: Day One, Rollovers, Earn-Outs

34:45 The Case for Building a Super Boutique from Scratch

37:57 The Super Boutique Vision and Timing

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
5 months ago
39 minutes 58 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
How top firms compete for talent: City headhunter Ed Parker on the high-stakes game of elite lateral partner hiring

In this episode, we’re joined by Ed Parker, managing director at Fides Search and one of the most trusted headhunters in the City legal market.

With nearly two decades of experience advising on partner and team moves, Ed brings a nuanced, data-driven perspective on how top firms are growing, and what that means for lawyers navigating their careers.

We explore the structural shifts happening across the partner talent market, from the aggressive expansion of US firms in London to the growing importance of team moves and due diligence in lateral hiring. Ed explains why some firms are placing massive bets on high-performing partners, how they price those hires, and what really determines whether a client book will travel.

For ambitious associates, this episode is packed with insight. Ed shares honest advice on timing your move, the risks of chasing quick promotions, and how to position yourself for long-term success - whether that’s through internal promotion or switching platforms. He also unpacks the rise of non-equity partnerships and what clients really care about when it comes to partner titles.

Finally, we touch on where the market is headed in the second half the year, from fast-moving jurisdictions like Saudi and Luxembourg to the enduring pull of London as a legal hub. If you're interested in the economics, strategy, and personal dynamics behind law firm hiring, this is one not to miss.

Chapters

00:45 Introduction & About Fides Search

03:45 What Headhunting Actually Involves

07:15 Building a Practice from Scratch

10:15 The State of the Partner Market in 2025

14:15 UK Firms: Adapting or Falling Behind?

17:30 Team Moves vs. Individual Lateral Hires

21:15 The Economics of Big Hires

25:45 Is This an Existential Threat to UK Firms?

30:15 The Rise of Non-Equity Partners

35:15 Advice for Ambitious Associates

43:45 Market Outlook for H2 2025

47:45 Connect with Ed & Fides Search

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
5 months ago
49 minutes 28 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
The boutique that beat the Magic Circle: How Quinn Emanuel built the most successful litigation practice in London

In this episode, we sit down with Richard East, the founding partner of Quinn Emanuel’s London office - the litigation powerhouse that has gone from a 2008 startup to one of the UK’s most profitable disputes firms, with revenues topping £220 million last year. Richard shares how he built the practice from scratch during the height of the financial crisis.

We discuss Quinn Emanuel’s distinctive model: no corporate teams, no panels, no conflicts - and no apologies about taking on the banks. Richard explains why that singular focus has been so powerful, and how the firm’s “door-to-door” approach to marketing - cold-calling and in-person meetings - helped them land early clients that fuelled their growth.

Richard also opens up about recruiting and compensation, including why Quinn refuses to follow the Cravath scale, why they pay comfortably above Magic Circle firms, and why entrepreneurial mindset is non-negotiable for new partners. He describes a culture that rewards independence and drive - and expects associates to own cases, not just take instructions.

We wrap up with Richard’s thoughts on competition, the evolution of the Magic Circle, and what comes next. He shares why he sees massive potential in using AI to stay ahead, why he isn’t afraid of giant mergers, and why after 17 years he still feels like there’s much more to build.

Chapters

00:40 Launching Quinn Emanuel London in 2008

04:00 Building a Litigation-Only Practice from Scratch

07:20 Marketing that Actually Works: Cold-Calling and Door-to-Door Meetings

11:00 Winning Early Clients During the Financial Crisis

14:40 How the Firm Thinks About Talent and Compensation

20:00 Culture, Independence, and Entrepreneurial DNA

24:30 Perspectives on the Magic Circle and Big Law Competitors

29:30 The Role of AI and the Future of Litigation

33:40 Leadership Lessons from 17 Years at the Helm

36:30 Ambition for the Next Chapter

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
6 months ago
40 minutes 47 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
Running legal at a hypergrowth tech company: Figma's international legal head Jonathan Keen on AI, expansion and EU red tape

In this episode, we speak with Jonathan Keen, head of international legal at Figma - one of the fastest-growing SaaS companies in the world. Jonny leads legal across EMEA, APAC, and Japan, supporting the business through constant product innovation, geographic expansion and a rapidly evolving regulatory landscape.

He shares what it’s really like to be the legal lead at a hypergrowth company, from negotiating major enterprise SaaS deals to navigating complex EU tech regulation. Jonny gives a behind-the-scenes view of how his team supports global scale, and what he looks for in the external law firms Figma relies on.

We also dive into legal tech and AI, and why Jonny cares more about lawyers who understand tech than what tools they use. He shares his view on how AI is impacting in-house teams, and what traits set great in-house lawyers apart.

Chapters

00:40 Jonny’s role at Figma

02:00 What legal looks like inside a rocketship

04:00 A typical day (if one exists)

06:30 Enterprise SaaS negotiations: fast and slow lanes

08:40 How legal supports the business without breaking it

10:00 Working with law firms: what matters

12:30 AI and legal tech at Figma

15:00 The EU regulatory wave

18:00 The compliance burden for mid-market companies

20:00 In-house vs private practice: what AI disrupts

23:00 What he looks for in new hires

25:00 Judgement, humility and curiosity

27:00 Advice for lawyers considering a move in-house

29:30 The future: what’s next for Jonny

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Show more...
6 months ago
31 minutes 24 seconds

The Non-Billable Podcast
The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry. Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm - now asking the questions he wished he had when he was practising. Brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.