What happens when the world’s dominant measurement system for corporate climate impact no longer reflects the world we’re operating in? And what should replace or supplement it?

At this year’s Climate Week in New York City, amid the 1,000-plus events and 100,000 attendees crowding the streets and stages, one theme stood out: leadership. Not just any leadership, but the kind that comes from the very top.

On our Two Steps Forward podcast, recorded live at Solutions House, my co-host Solitaire Townsend and I sat down with Jesper Brodin, CEO of IKEA and chair of The B Team, to explore the role of corporate leaders in accelerating the sustainability transition. What emerged was a candid conversation about agency, accountability and belief.

Solitaire Townsend and Joel Makower dive deep into the messy, confusing and often misleading world of corporate carbon claims. “Carbon neutral” once carried a certain promise. When Interface, the carpet company, popularized the phrase two decades ago, it felt like a step forward — an early signal that business could take responsibility for its role in the climate crisis. But as Soli and I explore, the term has since morphed into a hall pass for greenwash, a way for some companies to buy absolution without changing much.

What is the connection between creativity and sustainability? That's the topic of the conversation between Joel and Soli this episode.

To be clear, this isn’t just about those who can play an instrument, tell a story or paint a picture. Indeed, we challenged the popular notions of people as “creatives”or “influentials,” since these labels segment people unnecessarily. Instead, we emphasize that creativity is universal: from crafting bedtime stories to everyday problem-solving in supply chains or sustainability roles. Even repetitive jobs can involve improvisation, lateral thinking, negotiation and imaginative work behind the scenes.

Also important, we discussed, is the role of humor and levity. For example, wordplay and punning can be a useful way of processing ideas and connecting — creative elements that make sustainability work more enjoyable and less depressing at times.

Godelnik’s critique of current corporate efforts calls for moving beyond incrementalism and into systems-level transformation that prioritizes values over profits. “We’re living in an era where, for the most part, what we’re doing is tweaking the system rather than transforming the system,” he told us. “I call it sustainability as usual... grounded in the prioritization of profit maximization and growth, mostly short-term growth.”

Godelnik described how external conditions — regulation, social pressure, policy — can accelerate or impede corporate sustainability, often more than internal ambition. This sharp distinction reflects a concern that compliance is crowding out creativity. True progress will require investment in bold, entrepreneurial approaches, he said.

How does a corporate sustainability professional meet the moment?

That’s one of the questions we posed to Unilever’s chief sustainability and corporate affairs officer Rebecca Marmot in a live-on-stage podcast recording session during this year’s London Climate Action Week.

Marmot, who joined Unilever 18 years ago after stints at L’Oreal and in the U.K. government, discussed the some of the keys to success for today’s CSO.

Also in this episode, Soli and I discuss how to think about artificial intelligence through the lens of sustainability.

How much circularity can one company squeeze out of a toothpaste tube?

That’s the mouthwatering challenge taken on by Colgate Palmolive, the iconic 220-year-old company whose chief sustainability officer, Ann Tracy, has been leading the charge to make Colgate toothpaste tubes not just recyclable, but potentially turned back into new tubes.

It’s not just toothpaste, as Tracy told us. If the process works with toothpaste it can work with its other products, from household cleaners to skincare products and more.

Also in this episode, we assess this moment in the sustainability profession, including the critical need for telling new and better stories.

Financial services is high on the list of the most fascinating and challenging sectors for sustainability. Ellen Jackowski, Chief Sustainability Officer at Mastercard, is one of the sector's leaders. In just a few years at the financial services giant, she's helped pioneer approaches to using payment systems to inspire, inform and enable change at a mass scale.

Jackowski talks about her company's role in effecting systemic change and shares several examples of how the company innovates solutions for its customers and banking partners.

Also in this episode, Soli and Joel discuss the state of greenwashing and greenhushing, including how much of it is a distraction from more ambitious sustainability work that companies need to do.

Hawken's latest book, “Carbon: The Book of Life,” explores carbon's role in living systems, not just an evil gas contributing to climate change. He criticizes the climate movement for objectifying carbon and advocates for a shift in narrative from fear to possibility. Hawken highlights the limitations of technological solutions like direct air capture and bioenergy carbon capture systems and encourages a focus on local, grassroots efforts and individual actions, stressing the need for gratitude and wonder in our relationship with the natural world.

Also in this episode, Soli and Joel discuss the role of neurodivergence in sustainability.

“I'm excited for this moment,” Rev. Lennox Yearwood Jr., president and CEO of the Hip Hop Caucus, an advocacy group that works for racial, economic and climate justice, told us right off the bat. “It's a tough moment, but I'm excited for it,” he said, citing the group’s 20-year history of harnessing culture and storytelling to “shape our political experience.”

In this episode of the Two Steps Forward podcast, Yearwood reflected on his organization's journey leveraging culture to address major social and environmental challenges, particularly those impacting frontline communities.

The tech giant’s chief sustainability officer reflects on how she’ll make the most of this critical time in the two decades since she’s been working to advance sustainability, in the debut episode of our biweekly podcast Two Steps Forward. 

Soon to celebrate 10 years at Google — preceded by sustainability leadership roles at the White House and Defense Department — Kate Brandt, the chief sustainability officer at Google, talked with my co-host Solitaire Townsend, co-founder and “chief solutionist” at Futerra, and me in a wide-ranging conversation about this moment in sustainable business and the role of technology in accelerating sustainability goals.