Leading through renewal and reinvention. What does it take to lead after an institutional trauma and how to do this work without making it about you? Dr. Lynn Wells, President and Vice-Chancellor of Laurentian University, traces a steady path from crisis to renewal: changing a damaging narrative, rebuilding trust, and putting “student-first” at the centre of every hard call. Drawing on her earlier chapters at other institutions, from reconciliation work at First Nations University of Canada to student-centred leadership at MacEwan and pandemic decision-making at Brock — Lynn shows how process, patience, and humility become anchors when the ground keeps shifting. Lynn is candid about the human work beneath the headlines: helping a community heal, rejecting doom language, and choosing to lead alongside rather than from the front. She unpacks Laurentian’s tricultural identity, the deep bond with the city of Sudbury, and a powerful metaphor for recovery is the city’s decades-long “regreening,” a science-led restoration that mirrors the university’s rebuild. Along the way Lynn addresses why good governance beats quick fixes, how to keep purpose intact under political and financial pressure, and the disciplines that keep leaders steady: clear boundaries, exercise, and grace for human fallibility. This conversation is a grounded reflection on hope, discipline, and the long game of rebuilding step by step: one honest process, one student-first decision, and one reframed story at a time.

Balancing heart and mind. This “Messy” conversation is a bit of a departure from previous episodes as I talk to a bank executive in the Middle East who also works with NGOs and charities. Daniel Sharaiha grew up and lives in Jordan with one foot in business and the other in the NGO world. That tension, he says, keeps him humble: his head and heart never quite fit neatly into either sector, and that’s exactly why he sees complexity and the mess of leadership clearly. From welcoming millions of refugees in a water-scarce country to championing women’s participation in the workforce, Daniel frames leadership as service rooted in empathy, justice, and hope. He argues that empathy isn’t “soft” but rather it’s a strategic requirement that fuels organisations. His empathy stems from his identity as being an outsider, which provides a unique vantage point. He views influence and trust as the essential commodity for leadership in any organisation. In a world where “the unusual is now the usual,” Daniel leans on humour, improvisation, and resilience. He believes that we are in a world that requires generalists, and the ability to cross-train and build complementary skills the way a runner swims to become a better runner. He’s candid about failures (including a teenage hair-tonic misadventure that left him bald) and why leaders must bridge what seems as polar opposites: head and heart, profit and purpose, certainty and curiosity. Underpinning Daniel’s leadership is “hope”, and a desire to make the world a better place: building tables (sometimes literally) where people can gather, argue, laugh, and keep going together. Key lessons: • Empathy as an edge: it strengthens your leadership impact • Humour lowers defences: laughter opens the “window” • Improv is survival: change is “business as usual” • Cross-train your strengths • Dialogue over monologue: making meaning together

Navigating the mess to find opportunities. In a messy world, leadership doesn’t come with a roadmap — it comes with questions, courage, and relentless purpose. In this rich and reflective conversation, Dr. Diana Beech, inaugural Director of the Finsbury Institute at City St George’s, University of London, explores her unconventional career path across academia, government, and policy and what it teaches about leading in complex, purpose-driven organisations. Her story is one of adaptability, curiosity, and moral purpose, offering a grounded view of what leadership really looks like in the “mess” of public life and higher education. Our conversation touches on: • Her winding journey from academia to policy and back, taking a combination of serendipity, risk-taking, drive and hard work • The challenge of building something new, the Finsbury Institute, from the ground up • Why universities are struggling not just financially, but in public legitimacy • Lessons from failure, resilience, and self-belief and recognizing there is no shame in failing and the need to share our failure stories too. • Her guiding leadership principle: “Lead with purpose, not position” This conversation is for anyone trying to lead in messy systems — especially in higher education, government, or public service. She also shares her appreciation of an opportunity to talk about the mess of leadership and making sense of complex institutions.

Know yourself: surrender to the mess. What does it really mean to lead with authenticity? And how does healing your own wounds shape the way you show up as a leader? In this powerful episode of MESSY, host Daniel Atlin sits down with Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of British Columbia. Dr. Bacon’s story and journey is anything but ordinary. He opens up about his unexpected rise from teaching psychology at Bishop’s University to leading one of the top universities in the world. Along the way, he has faced and overcome deep personal challenges, including a traumatic childhood, years of substance use, and the difficult journey toward recovery. He shares how his healing has not only transformed his life, but also his leadership. What makes this conversation so compelling is Dr. Bacon’s honesty. He speaks candidly about fear, shame, and the hidden “family ghosts” that shape us, and contrasts the exhausting “path of control and fear” with the liberating “path of compassion and love.” Drawing from Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian wisdom, he reminds us that the true work of leadership is not just about strategy, budgets, or outcomes, it’s about cultivating inner peace and leading from a place of respect, compassion, and authenticity. His message is clear: “The first responsibility of a leader is to heal themselves.” This episode is for anyone navigating leadership, change, or personal growth. If you’ve ever wondered how to balance ambition with wellbeing, or how to show up more authentically in your own life, you won’t want to miss this conversation.

Your identity is your superpower. Tim McTiernan is Irish-Canadian and has extensive experience in social purpose organisations from governments (Ontario, Yukon, Ireland) and post-secondary institutions (University of Toronto, Canadore College, Ontario Tech). In this Messy with Daniel Atlin podcast, I speak with Tim as he shares his life journey from growing up in Ireland with a Catholic father and Protestant mother to his career across various leadership roles in Canada. Tim reflects on being an "outsider" in various contexts and how this shaped his approach to leadership. Tim provides insights into mastering stakeholder engagement and multi-party negotiations. He emphasises the importance of listening and collaboration, particularly when addressing complex issues with First Nations and other stakeholders. He also emphasises the importance of embracing roles fully even when in acting positions, learning by observing before acting, and finding ways to collaborate across institutional boundaries despite policy constraints. His experiences serve as invaluable lessons for those looking to thrive in challenging environments. Tim advises leaders to quickly understand current operational constraints, identify areas of flexibility, and look for creative solutions. He emphasises the need to "find the carriers of a vision and put them on pedestals where they can enable, support, and mentor people who can execute the visions." He acknowledges that transitions won't be easy and may be "hurtful to personnel and budgetarily challenging, but the status quo can't stand." He uses a story from his lifeguard days about the importance of looking for patterns and distortions in water - a metaphor for what leaders and their teams face in uncertain times.

Don't just shape the future - invent it! Sheldon Levy is one of the most recognisable names in Canadian Post-Secondary having worked in senior leadership roles at the University of Toronto, York University, UOIT (now Ontario Tech) and President at Sheridan College, Ryerson University (now Toronto Metropolitan University) and the private University: University Canada West. He also served as Deputy Minister of Training Colleges and Universities in the Ontario Government and as an advisor to the Canadian Minister of International Trade. In this podcast, Sheldon's maverick and entrepreneurial spirit shines brightly. He talks about the President as a risk taker unlike any other role at a complex institution. Levy explains the challenges of leading universities, including resistance to change, risk aversion, and the pressure to conform to a single model of excellence. He addresses current issues in higher education such as financial constraints, the international student situation, and the need for innovation. Levy shares his success story with creating the Digital Media Zone (DMZ) at Ryerson (now TMU), emphasising the importance of trusting students and breaking institutional rules to foster innovation. Throughout the conversation, he advocates for allowing institutions to experiment and take risks, trusting students more, and focusing on solving societal problems rather than just maintaining the status quo. He observes that both universities and government have become extremely risk-averse because they aren't allowed to make errors, which prevents innovation. As parting advice, Sheldon advises institutions to focus on one or two things that will make them better and to align themselves with societal needs rather than solely blaming government for challenges. And to be bold.

It's all about the students and pedagogy. Dr. Julia Christensen Hughes makes sense of her journey in higher education leadership, her insights on organisational change, and her experiences at the University of Guelph and Yorkville University. Julia shares her early disappointments as an undergraduate student, which fuelled her passion for improving higher education. She discusses her focus on purpose and aligning organisational behaviour and leadership with espoused values, drawing from her MBA and PhD studies. She talks about the precarious nature of innovation in public universities which seems to want to always revert back to the status quo. Julia shares insight from her tenure as Dean of the Lang School of Business and Economics at the University of Guelph, where she emphasises sustainability and ethical leadership. Julia highlights the importance of external endorsements and data-driven storytelling in building reputation and attracting significant donations, such as the transformational gift by Kim and Stu Lang which named the School. She also shares her approach to change management, focusing on invention, improvisation, storytelling, and adaptation. Transitioning to her current role at Yorkville University, Julia discusses the challenges and opportunities in private higher education, particularly in serving online graduate students. She contrasts the agility of Yorkville with the systemic issues hindering public universities, such as financial deficits and resistance to change. The interview concludes with Julia's advice for aspiring leaders in higher education and her hopes for the future of universities as learning organisations.

Join us for a conversation with Dr. Vivek Goel, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of Waterloo as he takes us on a journey through his diverse leadership experiences in healthcare, public health, and higher education. Discover how his medical background and public health expertise have shaped his unique approach to decision-making, both for individuals and communities alike. In this episode, Dr. Goel dives into the essence of genuine leadership, keeping people at the centre, and illuminating why effective leaders are crucial for steering long-term strategic vision. He shares why he introduced an innovative long-term vision at the University of Waterloo - known as "Waterloo at 100," preparing the university for its centenary in 2057 rather than relying on a conventional five-year plan. Dr. Goel also tackles the transformative role of artificial intelligence in higher education. He envisions a future where AI revolutionises teaching, learning, and research, with a return to personalised educational models. He makes a compelling case for the growing importance of humanities and social sciences in a world increasingly dominated by technology. Throughout this engaging discussion, Dr. Goel emphasises the power of diverse perspectives, the necessity of personal balance, and the need for leaders to be aware of the myriad forces, both internal and external, that shape their organisations.

Ever wonder if leaders really matter in complex organizations? I’m Daniel Atlin, an executive coach with over 30 years steering Canada’s universities, co-ops, and government sectors. In Messy, I dive into the chaotic world of purpose-driven leadership—think higher education, healthcare, and NGOs. Join me as I talk with global leaders about navigating stakeholder conflicts, geopolitical shifts, and crises, all while balancing influence over authority. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s not for the faint of heart. This is Messy - together we'll make sense of the mess