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When Love Hurts
Alison Epp, Jo Neill, Jill Cory, Karen McAndless-Davis
10 episodes
1 week ago
When Love Hurts is a podcast that exposes the reality about men’s abuse of women — what it is and how we can respond. Hosted by Alison Epp and Jo Neill and joined by Jill Cory and Karen McAndless-Davis, authors of the influential book When Love Hurts, the show draws from their decades of frontline experience supporting women and educating communities. Together, we’ll break down the many myths and misconceptions that allow abuse to hide in plain sight. For example, the myth that abuse is limited to physical violence fails to include the full scope of abuse — emotional, verbal, financial, sexual and more. This myth prevents women and their supporters from recognizing the impact of all forms of abuse. We also explore the social and systemic forces that enable men’s abuse, and what true support and accountability look like. This podcast is for everyone, not just survivors or professionals. Abuse impacts us all, whether we see it or not. Jill and Karen offer clear insight, practical wisdom, and heartfelt compassion in each episode. Join us as we shine light into the darkness, build understanding, and work toward a world where love never hurts.
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Health & Fitness
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All content for When Love Hurts is the property of Alison Epp, Jo Neill, Jill Cory, Karen McAndless-Davis and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
When Love Hurts is a podcast that exposes the reality about men’s abuse of women — what it is and how we can respond. Hosted by Alison Epp and Jo Neill and joined by Jill Cory and Karen McAndless-Davis, authors of the influential book When Love Hurts, the show draws from their decades of frontline experience supporting women and educating communities. Together, we’ll break down the many myths and misconceptions that allow abuse to hide in plain sight. For example, the myth that abuse is limited to physical violence fails to include the full scope of abuse — emotional, verbal, financial, sexual and more. This myth prevents women and their supporters from recognizing the impact of all forms of abuse. We also explore the social and systemic forces that enable men’s abuse, and what true support and accountability look like. This podcast is for everyone, not just survivors or professionals. Abuse impacts us all, whether we see it or not. Jill and Karen offer clear insight, practical wisdom, and heartfelt compassion in each episode. Join us as we shine light into the darkness, build understanding, and work toward a world where love never hurts.
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Education
Health & Fitness
Episodes (10/10)
When Love Hurts
Episode 7: Mothering, post separation abuse, and the legal system

In this episode, we talk about how men’s abuse profoundly impacts mothering and how that abuse so often continues after separation through the legal system. 

We begin by reflecting on our own experiences of being mothered and mothering, grounding us in the reality that parenting is never meant to be done alone. From there, we explore how abusive men undermine women’s ability to parent authentically, forcing mothers into impossible double binds – being told they are too strict or too soft, never able to simply respond to their children’s needs without fear of retaliation or escalation.

We discuss how men’s abuse drains the emotional and practical energy of the household, leaving women carrying the vast majority of parenting and domestic labor while also trying to protect their children from harm. We challenge the deeply ingrained belief that a man can be abusive to a woman and still be a “good father,” and we name how children are inevitably impacted when they witness control, intimidation, and disrespect toward their mother. 

We also speak to the ways children may imitate abusive behaviors, not because they are abusive themselves, but because they have been burdened with harmful attitudes and tactics learned from their father.

Read the rest of the show notes. 

If this information has brought you to feeling like you need further support, here are a few available resources: 

  • Alison Epp, counselling
  • Jo Neill, counselling
  • The When Love Hurts website lists their active support groups throughout Canada and provides many articles for further reading.
  • 211 is an emergency mental health number in Canada that can be called at any time and they can connect you with available local resources. 
  • If you still cannot find what you are looking for, please connect with us by email.


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1 week ago
1 hour 2 minutes

When Love Hurts
Episode 6: The harms of help

Services can repeat dynamics of abuse. In this episode we explore the concept of "harms of help" – the negative experiences women have with the very people and services meant to support them. 

This concept came from our research, where over 250 women were asked about what barriers they faced when seeking support. Many women described to us how the support they sought through services and professionals paradoxically added to initial harms of the abuse, rather than helped. Women observed that the treatment by service providers can mirror the control dynamics of their abusive partner. For example, women described harmful experiences with:

  • Courts that favor fathers regardless of his violence
  • Police who label situations as “mutual conflict.”
  • Shelters with rules that exclude vulnerable women.
  • Child welfare systems that dismiss disclosures and blame mothers.
  • Healthcare providers who offer judgment instead of support
  • Helpers that favour or take the side of the abusive man and blame women.
  • Counselors who fail to recognize abuse or focus on “relationship skills” instead of safety.

When these responses ignore the abuse, it embolden the abusive partner, compounds the harms of the abuse, and increases women’s isolation.

Read the rest of the show notes, here. 

For helpers and professionals, here's a reminder to anyone supporting women:

  • Recognize the power you hold.
  • Avoid replicating dynamics of control.
  • Listen more than you speak.
  • Believe women.
  • Keep women in control of their own process.
  • Understand that systems can create vulnerability.

Closing notes

  • For more information, visit whenlovehurts.ca. 
  • Listeners are invited to join the #WLHCommunity and help spread the message.
  • The hosts also thank MCC Canada for supporting Season 1 and welcome sponsors for future seasons.
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2 weeks ago
57 minutes

When Love Hurts
Episode 5: Why abusive men are abusive

In this episode, we take on the question women ask again and again: Why is he abusive? Women are desperate for an answer. They want to understand his need for power and control – where it comes from, what drives it, and whether he’s even aware of it. For many women, this becomes a pivotal point in making sense of their situation.


There are many unfounded theories and explanations commonly offered for why abusive men are abusive:

  • He has an anger problem.
  • He’s under a lot of stress.
  • He’s mentally ill.
  • It’s because of his childhood.
  • He’s an addict.
  • It’s just his “conflict style.”

None of these are accurate. These excuses show up everywhere in the dominant discourse and leave both women and professionals confused about what the real issue actually is.

Karen shares part of her own story about Bruce’s change process and what that looked like. That experience leads us into a discussion of the true cause of abuse: the man’s underlying belief system.

Research from the University of British Columbia’s School of Social Work, based on interviews with men before and after treatment, identified three core beliefs held by abusive men. These beliefs create the foundation that allows abuse to happen:

  • Central – He believes he should be the centre of the household and that everything should revolve around him.
  • Superior – He believes he is better than his partner in all areas that matter.
  • Deserving – He believes he is entitled to whatever he wants, whenever he wants it.

These beliefs are deeply held – often unconscious – and rooted in privilege and entitlement. Abusive men may know how to “talk the talk” of healthy relationship, so they won’t usually state these beliefs outright. But their actions reveal them.

  • More in the show notes
  • Alison Epp, counselling
  • Jo Neill, counselling
  • The When Love Hurts website lists their active support groups throughout Canada and provides many articles for further reading.
  • 211 is an emergency mental health number in Canada that can be called at any time and they can connect you with available local resources. 
  • If you still cannot find what you are looking for, please connect with us by email.

Please like, share, and subscribe to help more people access this vital content.

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3 weeks ago
1 hour 1 minute

When Love Hurts
Episode 4: The impacts of abuse for women

We want to thank you for joining us for this heavy, but essential, conversation. Be gentle with yourself as you listen; grab your coffee or tea and give yourself the space and time you need.


Historically, everyone — from services to courts to friends — has focused on what he did. "Did he kick? Did he choke? Was it bad enough to count as abuse?" Can she prove it? But this focus on his behaviour completely fails to describe the devastating impact their behaviour has on their partner's while ignoring or minimizing the woman’s experiences.. In this episode, we center the impact of his abuse on her. Focusing on impacts shifts focus from ‘What is wrong with her’: to “What has happened to her?” 


In this episode,we explore the deep and wide-ranging ways men’s abuse impacts women — regardless of what specific tactics of abuse he uses.


Men’s abuse has so many impacts. Broadly, it systematically strips away a woman’s autonomy, affecting everything – how you live, how you parent, who you have friendships with, who you can see, how you express yourself, etc..


Abusive men create a constant, terrifying and unpredictable reality — like walking through a landmine, where any step could trigger an explosion. A woman can't focus on herself because she is entirely focused on minimizing harm to her and her children. Looking at impacts helps women identify how the fear has affected them.

Abuse also impacts your physical and mental health. Women experience migraines, body pain, insomnia, exhaustion, difficulty concentrating, weight changes, frequent infections, reproductive coercion and so much more.

Resources and next steps

  • Read the entire show notes
  • Alison Epp, counselling
  • Jo Neill, counselling
  • The When Love Hurts website lists their active support groups throughout Canada and provides many articles for further reading. 
  • 211 is an emergency mental health number in Canada that can be called at any time and they can connect you with available local resources. 
Show more...
1 month ago
54 minutes

When Love Hurts
Episode 3: Understanding the power and control wheel

In this episode of the When Love Hurts podcast, we unpack the realities of power and control in abusive relationships. We dive into a deeper exploration of the Power and Control Wheel, a tool we use every day in our work with women. We speak about why this tool matters so much, how it builds on the cycle of abuse, and how it helps women name and understand the tactics used against them.


As we walk through each section of the wheel, we share examples from the countless stories women have entrusted to us over the years. We talk about psychological abuse—especially gaslighting—and how disorienting and crazy-making it can be when someone rewrites your reality. We discuss the many forms physical abuse can take beyond hitting, including blocking exits, reckless driving, and threatening behavior that leaves no visible marks. We explore verbal abuse, from cruel insults to conversational control, and how words become weapons instead of a means of connection.


We also spend time on financial abuse, one of the most misunderstood but powerful forms of control, and we highlight how deeply it traps women—both during the relationship and after leaving. We speak about social abuse and the devastating impact of isolation, including tactics that involve friends, family, and community. From there, we move into spiritual abuse, cultural abuse, the use of children as a weapon, and sexual abuse—all areas where lines often blur, tactics overlap, and women are left feeling confused, ashamed, and alone.

Resources

  • Shownotes
  • Alison Epp, counselling
  • Jo Neill, counselling
  • The When Love Hurts website lists their active support groups throughout Canada and provides many articles for further reading. 
  • 211 is an emergency mental health number in Canada that can be called at any time and they can connect you with available local resources. 
  • If you still cannot find what you are looking for, please connect with us by email.
  • Power and Control Wheel (PDF)
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1 month ago
52 minutes

When Love Hurts
Episode 2: Understanding the cycle of abuse

In this episode, we take a deeper look at the cycle of abuse, what it is, how it functions, and how it impacts women both during a relationship and after separation. We begin by sharing our own first encounters with the cycle and then break down each phase, exploring why it’s so confusing, why it’s so effective at trapping women, and why outsiders so often miss what’s really happening.

The cycle describes the patterned behaviors of abusive partners. It includes three phases.

  1. Honeymoon – manipulative kindness
  2. Tension – walking on eggshells
  3. Explosion – the most devastating behaviors

Each phase in the cycle is a part of the abuse. The honeymoon isn’t love; it’s grooming. And the unpredictability is what makes the cycle so confusing and so effective.

Learn more and get resources:

  • Show notes
  • Allison Epp, counselling
  • Jo Neill, counselling
  • When Love Hurts, contact
Show more...
1 month ago
49 minutes

When Love Hurts
Episode 1: Why are we here? Understanding the dominant discourse around woman abuse

In this first episode of When Love Hurts, Alison, Jo, Jill, and Karen come together to begin a conversation they've been passionate about for decades. They created this podcast because they've seen far too many women bravely seek help only to be misunderstood, minimized, or given advice that leaves them more vulnerable. The creators want women, and the professionals who support them, to finally have access to clear, accurate information about abuse. When a woman hears her experience accurately named, it cuts through the fog of confusion and shame. That clarity is powerful, and we want it to be available to everyone.

Throughout this season, they'll be sharing tools, exercises, and frameworks grounded in what they’ve learned from thousands of women over the years. They trust women’s experiences as the deepest source of truth, and their goal is to bring that truth forward with compassion and clarity. They hope these conversations help you rethink what you’ve been told about abuse, understand your own experience more clearly, or support the women in your life with greater confidence.

  • Show notes
  • www.whenlovehurts.ca
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1 month ago
55 minutes

When Love Hurts
Excitement for When Love Hurts, the podcast, launching November 25

We're counting down the days until the launch of our podcast! We're very excited about producing and publishing these conversations. Season One launches November 25! Join us as we reframe the conversation about abuse, healing, and hope.

Every day, we hear from women who are living with or recovering from abuse. These women are often harmed further by the misinformation that surrounds them. In this preview conversation, we give you a taste of our approach, by naming some of the most persistent myths and dominant discourses about abuse; that women stay because they have poor boundaries, or that leaving is a simple matter of choice.

Join us this season as we unpack how these narratives misplace responsibility, overlooking the realities of power and control in abusive relationships. We will examine how these ideas not only isolate women but also reinforce the very systems that keep abuse hidden.

This podcast is about changing this. We are offering clear, compassionate, evidence-based understandings of what men’s abuse of women really looks like, why it happens, and what can help. In upcoming episodes, Karen and Alison will be joined by Jill and Jo to deepen the discussion and share the voices and insights of women who have lived through abuse.

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1 month ago
4 minutes

When Love Hurts
Announcing When Love Hurts, the podcast, with Karen McAndless-Davis and Jill Cory

What if everything you thought you knew about abuse wasn't quite right? What do you do when you realize the man you're with is not who he says he is? But you can't quite put your finger on exactly what the problem is. What do you do when you feel trapped and alone in your relationship, but everyone else thinks he's such a great guy.

The authors of When Love Hurts, a Woman's Guide to Understanding Abuse in Relationships, have spent decades supporting women who've experienced abuse and also help organizations and communities develop informed and compassionate responses so that women receive the right kind of support. In this podcast, we're exposing the hidden realities about men's abuse of women. What it really is. Why it happens and what needs to change.

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3 months ago
1 minute

When Love Hurts
New podcast! Is this thing on? Introducing Alison Epp and Jo Neill

The When Love Hurts book and material is an an incredible resource for women who are experiencing abuse in their relationship. It transforms perspectives and understanding.

Alison has a Master’s of Counselling Psychology and works in a counselling practice providing individual and group counselling. Alison continues to co-facilitate a WLH support group through MCC Saskatoon. Jo is a Registered Clinical Counsellor with a private practice in BC. Jo works with other survivors as well as educating people on the topic of abuse and coercive control.

www.whenlovehurts.ca/podcast/


Show more...
4 months ago
2 minutes

When Love Hurts
When Love Hurts is a podcast that exposes the reality about men’s abuse of women — what it is and how we can respond. Hosted by Alison Epp and Jo Neill and joined by Jill Cory and Karen McAndless-Davis, authors of the influential book When Love Hurts, the show draws from their decades of frontline experience supporting women and educating communities. Together, we’ll break down the many myths and misconceptions that allow abuse to hide in plain sight. For example, the myth that abuse is limited to physical violence fails to include the full scope of abuse — emotional, verbal, financial, sexual and more. This myth prevents women and their supporters from recognizing the impact of all forms of abuse. We also explore the social and systemic forces that enable men’s abuse, and what true support and accountability look like. This podcast is for everyone, not just survivors or professionals. Abuse impacts us all, whether we see it or not. Jill and Karen offer clear insight, practical wisdom, and heartfelt compassion in each episode. Join us as we shine light into the darkness, build understanding, and work toward a world where love never hurts.