In episode 2 , we sit down with two South African giants of the Away Game: 1995 Rugby World Cup winner and Wiesenhof Coffee founder Kobus Wiese, and Cape Classics and Indaba Foundation founder André Shearer.From lifting the Webb Ellis Cup to lifting espresso machines and wine cases in far-flung markets, we unpack how teams, attitude and sheer graft turn rugby lessons into global businesses.In this episode, we talk about:
● How the Springboks became South Africa’s best brand builder when everything else was failing
● Kobus’s blind date that turned into a marriage and a coffee empire
● André’s unlikely journey from teetotal medical student and model to New York wine merchant
● What it really takes to start a business in a country where no one knows your story
● Why attitude often matters more than CVs in building winning teams
● The brutal honesty of Players’ Player of the Year and what it teaches us about feedback in business
● The power of early childhood education and the vision behind the Indaba Foundation
● Why less than 1% of an education budget can break an entire economy over 20 years
● Coffee, wine and why the best leaders are willing to mop the floor and host the boardroom
If you love Springbok rugby, entrepreneurship, South African wine and coffee, this one is for you.
00:00 – Welcome to Winning the Away Game
01:06 – Introducing Kobus Wiese & André Shearer
02:32 – Springboks as South Africa’s greatest brand builders
03:12 – Flip’s dad, Jan Boland Coetzee and scrum lessons for life
07:16 – When did Kobus realise he could make it as a Bok?
10:12 – Herklaas Engelbrecht and falling in love with rugby
11:49 – André’s journey: medicine, modelling and stumbling into wine
14:11 – The first cellar tasting that changed everything
17:46 – Landing in New York with South African wine no one knew
23:22 – Two-sided marketplace: convincing farmers and US buyers25:53 – South Africa’s missing national brand story
28:12 – Kobus’s second date that led to Wiesenhof Coffee
31:33 – Chaos on day one and learning the trade from scratch
35:30 – The real lows of entrepreneurship and finding trustworthy people
38:12 – Building a business in New York with no network43:59 – The ethics of relationships and why partners matter more than terms
49:37 – Rugby lessons for business: sacrifice, attitude and honesty
53:46 – Rowing, leadership and leading from the front60:51 – The Indaba Foundation and early childhood education
65:05 – From 46% to 92%: what early learning can unlock
71:23 – Entrepreneurs, honest government and proper parenting
81:57 – Kobus’s next chapter dream: classical music and the violin
83:40 – Backs play the piano, forwards move the piano
84:08 – Wrap-up and how to support the work
About Winning the Away Game:
We are Justinus Adriaanse and Flip van der Merwe.
Connect with us on LinkedIn.
Got a guest you’d love to see on the show? - Drop some suggestions in the comments and we’ll try to get them.
And if you have a question you think we should ask our guests? Let us know.
Winning The Away Game is available on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and on the Winning The Away Game website at www.wtagpodcast.com.
Subscribe to our newsletter for latest releases and behind the scenes content.
Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
We open Season 1 of Winning the Away Game with two guests who know what it means to be tested far from home.
Bryan Habana is a Rugby World Cup winner, Springbok legend and Toulon star who has had to rebuild his identity after retirement.
Orrin Klopper is the CEO of NetSurIT, a global MSP that has survived multiple crises, acquisitions and a full reinvention of its business model in recent years.
In this conversation we explore how both of them learned to win long after the final whistle.
In this episode we cover:
The day a 13-year-old Bryan watched the 1995 Rugby World Cup final at Ellis Park and realised rugby could unite a country – and change his life.
How King Edward VII School created a sense of brotherhood and belonging for both Bryan and Orrin, even when they weren’t the stars or prefects.
Why Orrin went from being expelled from schools to selling hot dogs, VHS tapes, second-hand shoes and eventually technology services.
The early NetSurIT years: bootstrapping, Microsoft partnerships, and the first US acquisition that nearly broke everything.
Bryan’s move from the Bulls and Stormers to Toulon: French club politics, media pressure, injuries and learning to live in a totally different culture.
The brutal personal chapter in New York where Orrin’s marriage imploded, the NYPD were looking for him after false allegations, and he had to rebuild his own sense of reality through deep self-work.
How COVID, the loss of major clients and an uncertain future forced NetSurIT to cut costs aggressively, rethink its core and launch a new “Innovate” offering in AI, automation and digital transformation.
Bryan’s lowest moment: realising a knee injury had quietly ended his career, announcing his retirement, and breaking down at home as he opened the door and heard his son laugh.
The five transferable traits Bryan believes every successful person needs: discipline, sacrifice, hard work, resilience and perseverance – regardless of industry.
Why he says rugby was never his full identity, and how “unlearning to learn” is the key to his next chapter as an entrepreneur with Paymenow.
How fatherhood shifted Orrin’s decision-making, made him more decisive, and paradoxically helped the business grow faster.
What legacy looks like for both men over the next decade: purpose-driven businesses, stronger families and using their stories to help others win their own “away games”.
Guests
Bryan Habana – World Cup–winning Springbok, former Toulon wing, entrepreneur and co-founder of Paymenow.
Orrin Klopper – CEO and founder of NetSurIT, a global managed services provider with operations in South Africa and the US.
About the show
Winning the Away Game is hosted by Justinus Adriaanse and Flip van der Merwe. We bring together stories from rugby and business to explore what it really takes to succeed when you’re far from your comfort zone.
Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
In this episode we sit down with two South Africans who know all about pressure, change, and starting again: former Springbok captain Corne Krige and blind adventurer and speaker Hein Wagner.They take us from leaving home for boarding school as young kids, to captaining the Springboks and crossing oceans, to starting businesses and building institutions that create opportunity for others.
Along the way we talk discipline, identity, independence, and what it really means to build a country that works for everyone.In this episode we cover:- Growing up far from home: boarding school at 4 and 5, and learning independence early- Corne’s journey from Zambia to Paarl Boys’ and captaining the Springboks on debut- Hein’s story of blindness, adventure, and crossing the Atlantic with a deaf skipper- Land-speed records, Cape Epic on a tandem, Ironman, and chasing challenge after challenge- The brutal England test, retiring from rugby, and starting over in business- Building discipline, resilience, and identity beyond a Springbok jersey- Moving to Sweden and how a different system changed Hein’s view of South Africa- Hein’s daughter’s leukemia, the Swedish healthcare system, and what “a country that works for everyone” can look likeAbout Winning the Away Game:We are Justinus Adriaanse and Flip van der Merwe. Connect with us on LinkedIn.Got a guest you’d love to see on the show? - Drop some suggestions in the comments and we’ll try to get them on the show. And if you have a question you think we should ask our guests? Let us know. Winning The Away Game is available on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and on the Winning The Away Game website at www.wtagpodcast.com. Subscribe to our newsletter for latest releases and behind the scenes content. Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Winning the Away Game launches on 20 November, just before the Ireland Test.
Your hosts are serial entrepreneur, Justinus Adriaanse, and Springbok #818, Phillip “Flip” van der Merwe.
This groundbreaking podcast brings together two powerful forces: Springbok rugby legends and South African business leaders who've made their mark internationally.
Each episode pairs these extraordinary individuals to share their stories of resilience, legacy, and what it truly takes to succeed on foreign soil.
Whether you love Springbok rugby, business strategy or stories of South African grit going global, this is your new home for insight and inspiration.
Listen to the trailer and get ready for fun, insightful conversations with leaders who have built remarkable careers abroad and stayed rooted in South Africa’s future.
Catch Winning the Away Game on all major platforms including YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts starting November 20th.
Follow Justinus, Flip, and the show on LinkedIn to stay updated with new episodes and behind-the-scenes content.