In the last episode of the CELab podcast, co-host Dave Derington explored the profound shifts redefining the learning landscape—from the legacy of transactional, revenue-generating education services to agile, outcome-driven customer enablement. Customer Education and Education Services are converging, and Dave continues sharing his thoughts on how B2B SaaS organizations are reimagining what learning means for their customers, partners, and teams. Drawing on his journey through small to large businesses - including Atlassian, Outreach, Gainsight, and ServiceRocket - he breaks down why businesses need to move beyond simply selling training—embracing continuous, measurable, and truly impactful learning experiences. This offers listeners an inside look at the systems, teams, and metrics that set elite learning teams apart. Packed with stories from the frontlines—including modular content wins, the challenge of getting measurable outcomes, and real examples of change led by forward-thinking leaders—this episode is a roadmap for anyone looking to level up their Customer Education or Customer Success game. Want to dive deeper or connect with us? Have stories to share? Reach out to us today through this link on the CELab website, or contact us through LinkedIn! Episode Highlights: Transition from revenue-driven to value and outcomes-driven learning strategies. The “Trinity” of learning measurement: Learner identity, what’s learned, and usage data. Modular, scalable content as a key to modern learning success. Importance of aligning education, enablement, services, and customer success teams. Continuous learning loops beat one-and-done training every time. Tailoring without fully bespoke (costly) solutions: Balancing scale and relevance. Embedding data and business outcomes in learning program design. Practical examples from Atlassian, Gainsight, and more. Tips for leveraging champions and blended content delivery.

What does the future hold for Customer Education in the ever-evolving world of B2B SaaS? In this solo episode, CELab co-founder and host Dave Derington explores the profound shifts redefining the learning landscape—from the legacy of transactional, revenue-generating education services to agile, outcome-driven customer enablement. Drawing on industry experience and personal insights, Dave examines how the disciplines of Education Services and Customer Education are merging to drive both business outcomes and Customer Success. Listeners will discover how digital transformation, the subscription economy, and post-pandemic realities have forced learning organizations to adapt at unprecedented speed. Using real-world examples and honest reflection, Dave highlights practical strategies, common pitfalls, and the importance of continual innovation in customer education. Whether you lead a startup or enterprise, this episode arms you with actionable ideas for thriving in the modern era of learning. Key Highlights: Why Education Services and Customer Education are converging in SaaS Lessons from legacy revenue-driven versus outcomes-based models How the subscription economy demands faster, more agile learning solutions COVID-19’s lasting impact on digital learning and engagement Key risks in “old school” and modern on-demand training programs The real-world business value of blending live and digital learning Practical steps to improve adoption, reduce churn, and drive measurable customer success The critical role of customer success-minded educators in today’s SaaS world

In this episode of the Customer Education Lab, host Dave Derington welcomes Dan Braithwaite, Senior Director of Product Training at Mediaocean, for a deep dive on modern Instructor-Led Training (ILT) and its powerful impact in B2B SaaS customer education. Dan shares real-world stories, practical frameworks, and a human-centered approach to ILT that has helped shape Mediaocean’s global learning strategy. Tune in as we debunk ILT myths, unpack a hands-on framework spanning “Tell Me, Show Me, Let Me Try,” and discuss how to build truly engaging experiences for customers and internal learners. If you want actionable strategies on scaling customer education, maximizing engagement, and measuring impact, this episode is a must-listen! Key Episode Topics & Highlights ILT’s evolution: from “dead” to indispensable in SaaS training Building global, scalable, virtual instructor-led programs “Tell Me, Show Me, Let Me Try” framework Multimodal learning and accommodating diverse learner styles Turning classrooms into communities & leveraging peer learning Avoiding common mistakes in new ILT programs The power of thoughtful post-training experiences and measurement Using feedback loops, NPS, support ticket data, and product engagement tools Driving adoption, retention, and tangible business impact via training

In this episode of CELab, host Dave Derington sits down with April Trask, a leader in partner enablement and enterprise AI at Writer. April unpacks the evolving landscape of partner enablement, exploring how AI and generative tools are reshaping the way organizations educate both partners and customers. April shares her unique journey from academia to tech, offering candid insights into building scalable programs at companies like Dropbox, Slack, CrowdStrike, and Writer. The conversation dives deep into the differences between customer education and partner enablement, the challenges of aligning cross-functional teams, and the importance of adaptability in a rapidly changing industry. April and Dave also discuss practical strategies for leveraging AI in learning, the critical role of collaboration with product and marketing, and advice for professionals navigating the pressures of pipeline and revenue. Key Topics & Takeaways for Customer Education and Customer Success: The spectrum of partner enablement models and why “one size fits all” doesn’t work How AI and generative tools are transforming learning experiences for partners and customers The difference in motivations between partners and direct customers—and why it matters Building scalable enablement programs from scratch in fast-growing companies The importance of cross-functional collaboration (product, marketing, sales enablement) Why playbooks must be flexible: lessons learned from adapting to new environments Career advice for those moving from customer education to partner enablement

Launching a customer education program is never easy—especially when you’re racing against the clock. In this episode, CELab’s Dave Derington sits down with Clea Mahoney , Head of Customer Education at Rewst, to unpack how her team rolled out Skilljar’s LMS in just 55 days. Clea shares her unconventional journey from instructor-led training to scalable online learning, and how playfulness, experimentation, and a customer-first mindset fueled Rewst’s rapid growth. Listeners will discover how Clea and her team navigated the challenges of startup life, balanced perfectionism with progress, and leveraged data and AI to drive customer success. Whether you’re building your first customer education program or scaling an established one, this episode is packed with actionable insights, candid stories, and inspiration for every stage of your journey. Key Topics & Highlights: Rapid implementation of Skilljar LMS in just 55 days Transitioning from instructor-led to scalable, modular online training Building customer education programs in fast-paced startup environments Balancing perfectionism with progress: “done is better than perfect” Using data and analytics to measure and improve learning outcomes Integrating AI and contextual help into customer education platforms The importance of soft skills and team culture in Customer Success Tailoring education for technical and non-technical audiences Advice for launching your first customer education program

In this episode of CELab, we welcome Nick Mehta and Erica Kuhl to talk about Skilljar by Gainsight! We discuss the integration of their platforms and the future of Customer Education. We explore the importance of community in customer success, the vision behind the Customer OS, and how learning and community can work together to enhance customer experiences. Erica shares her journey from Salesforce to Gainsight, emphasizing the need for collaboration and innovation in the customer education space. The conversation highlights the significance of integrating learning and community to drive customer success and retention. Highlights Customer education is essential for growth and retention. The integration of SkillJar and Gainsight creates a powerful Customer OS. Community plays a crucial role in customer success. Learning should be an ecosystem that includes community engagement. Erica Kuhl emphasizes the importance of collaboration in education. The future of customer education lies in integrating various platforms. AI can enhance the customer education experience. Creating opportunities for practitioners to connect is vital. Feedback from the community is essential for product development. The vision for Gainsight is to empower customers through education and community.

What do we call what we do? Is it Customer Education, Customer Enablement, Scaled CX, Digital CS, or something else entirely? This episode features the return of serial guest and friend, Samantha Murray and both of our co-hosts - Adam and Dave - to spar about nomenclature (word of the day - the devising or choosing of names for things, especially in a science or other discipline). In this ever-evolving world of learning in B2B SaaS. Should we call our customer education, enablement, or something else entirely? We explore how different organizations structure their customer-facing teams, the impact of titles and internal branding, and why the outcomes we drive may matter more than the names we use. You'll hear real-world examples from large and fast-moving organizations, insights from LinkedIn discussions, and even a bit of AI-generated analysis on the distinctions between customer education, enablement, and digital CS. The episode challenges listeners to rethink how teams are grouped, what outcomes they’re responsible for, and how the industry can move forward amid rapid technological and organizational change. Highlights: The ongoing debate: Customer Education vs. Customer Enablement vs. Scaled CX How naming conventions and titles impact team structure and outcomes Real-world organizational examples and shifting internal branding The role of AI in analyzing industry trends and terminology The importance of aligning teams around shared outcomes, not just functions The pros and cons of top-down vs. fractional/flexible leadership models How to drive industry alignment during times of disruption and tech consolidation Want to join the conversation? Jump into the the conversation that kicked this off on LinkedIn or join us in our Community platform to share your org structures and experiences!

In this episode of CELab, Eric Mistry joins us for a deep conversation into the evolving landscape of customer education, exploring how AI and automation are reshaping the field. We discuss the critical need for breaking down organizational silos and fostering a true community of practice, where educators, customer success professionals, and marketers collaborate to drive better outcomes for learners and organizations alike. Eric shares his journey stepping into the role of Customer Education Manager at Smartcat and taking the reins of the influential Customer Education Bi-Weekly Newsletter. Together, Dave and Eric unpack the challenges and opportunities presented by rapid technological change, the importance of data, and the power of community-driven knowledge sharing. Whether you’re a practitioner, leader, or just curious about the future of customer education, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiration. What's in the episode? The impact of AI and automation on customer education and enablement Breaking down silos between customer education, customer success, and marketing The evolution and importance of the customer education bi-weekly newsletter Practical steps for getting started with AI as an education professional The role of data and clean architecture in scaling learning interventions Building a sustainable, collaborative community of practice Real-world examples of AI-powered learning and support The value of sharing, community, and elevating individual voices If you haven't already become a subscriber, make sure you sign up today!

In this episode of CELab, co-host Adam Avramescu and special guest star Beaker Tincher from Personio sit down with Andrew Matsiavin, co-founder of Parta.io, to share the story of how their partnership transformed their approach to Customer Education. We dive deep into the challenges of legacy e-learning tools, the need for branded and differentiated learning experiences, and how Parta’s collaborative platform enabled Personio to achieve a 50% efficiency gain in course creation. These days emerging platforms like Parta embrace partnership, innovation, and the drive to create engaging, scalable content for global audiences. Listeners will hear firsthand how Personio’s team overcame localization hurdles, streamlined collaboration with subject matter experts, and integrated AI and automation to future-proof their learning programs. The episode also explores the broader impact of treating vendors as true partners, resulting in solutions that benefit not just one company, but the entire Customer Education community. Whether you’re a learning leader, Instructional Designer, or EdTech enthusiast, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiration. The inefficiencies and limitations of legacy e-learning tools like Articulate and SCORM How Personio achieved a 50% efficiency gain in course creation with Parta The power of branded, differentiated learning experiences Real-world collaboration between learning designers and subject matter experts Overcoming localization and translation challenges at scale The value of deep, responsive vendor partnerships Future trends: AI-driven content discoverability and integration with business tech stacks Lessons for building scalable, engaging customer education programs Want to learn more? Check them out by following this link: https://parta.io/celab

What does it take to build a world-class customer education program in today’s fast-paced, global SaaS landscape? In this episode, Dave Derington sits down with Randon Ruggles, Director of Customer Education at Jamf, to unpack the journey from classroom teacher to industry leader. Randon shares how his team scaled from a handful of educators to a global force, leveraging modular content, short-form video, and agile operations to drive customer success and retention. Listeners will get a behind-the-scenes look at Randon and his team's innovative approach to content creation, localization, and data-driven decision-making. From the power of “Jamf Shorts” to the operational backbone of Atlassian tools, Randon and Dave explore the real-world challenges and solutions that make customer education a strategic differentiator. Whether you’re a team of one or leading a global org, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiration. In this episode we cover: Scaling customer education from startup to global enterprise The power of modular, short-form video content (“Jamf Shorts”) Integrating learning with product, support, and customer success Using Atlassian tools (JIRA, Confluence) for agile content ops Data-driven decision-making: metrics, dashboards, and A/B testing Smart localization strategies for global reach Building team synergy and cross-functional collaboration Advice for small teams and industry newcomers

In this electrifying episode of CELab, Adam and Dave take the opportunity to share insights and learnings from Gainsight Pulse 2025, unpacking the transformative landscape of customer education and digital success. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Dave reveals how leading organizations are reimagining customer learning in an era of AI, scaled digital experiences, and integrated customer success strategies. Join Adam Avramescu and Dave Derington as they dissect the conference's key moments, exploring the critical intersection of community, education, and technology. From Gainsight's strategic acquisitions to the challenges of creating meaningful digital learning experiences, this episode offers a roadmap for customer education professionals navigating the complex world of modern customer success. Key Topics: Gainsight's acquisition of Skilljar and its implications AI's role in customer education content creation Scaling digital customer success strategies Integrating education, community, and product experiences Challenges of creating high-quality digital learning at scale The future of customer success operating systems

In this episode, we sit down with Jeremy Davis from Cloudshare to explore the transformative world of virtual labs in customer education. Discover how cutting-edge technology is reshaping training approaches, making learning more accessible, efficient, and engaging than ever before. The conversation delves into the evolution of training methods, the impact of virtual environments, and how organizations can leverage these tools to dramatically improve customer onboarding and skill development. Key Discussion Topics: The limitations of traditional training methods How virtual labs solve complex training challenges AI and automation in customer education Measuring training impact and ROI Check out Cloudshare today at http://cloudshare.com/lp/celab!

In the latest Customer Education Laboratories podcast, we sit down with Alex Levin, CEO of regal.ai, to unpack the mind-blowing future of customer interactions. We're not just talking about chatbots - we're exploring a world where AI agents handle 90% of customer support with unprecedented empathy and efficiency! For those of us in the Customer Success and Customer Education space, this leads to some interesting topics, and we can't help but wonder how AI will impact all aspects of our organization. Some key highlights: How AI can now handle complex conversations, perhaps better than humans Voice interfaces are becoming the new primary customer engagement channel Restructure your knowledge base for AI readiness How small teams can support millions of customers The future of AI in business is constantly changing, and this conversation unlocks a lot of interesting and relevant topics. While Regal. ai is focused on Support - this is a massively important component to learning. Check it out today!

In this episode of CELab, we chat with Kevin Dunn, Senior Manager of Customer Education & Community at Airtable, and Adam Avramescu, to dive deep into how Airtable leverages operating models and AI to scale and streamline customer education. Kevin shares how the Academy OS—built entirely on Airtable—drives efficiency in course creation, content management, and feedback analysis, while also boosting customer engagement. He walks us through how AI and relational databases are helping streamline workflows, prioritize feedback, and improve product adoption. If you're looking for ways to integrate operating models and AI into your customer education program for better scale and efficiency, this episode is a must-listen. Key Takeaways AI enhances course content development by analyzing feedback and automating updates. Academy OS eliminates invisible labor by automating manual processes in content creation. Prioritization of feedback and course updates is streamlined using AI and Airtable’s relational databases. Connecting customer education data with product usage data shows clear correlations to product adoption and retention.

In this dynamic episode of CELab, Todd Kirk from BrainStorm joins with Dave Derington for a dive deep into the complex world of customer education, unveiling the "Two-Hump Problem"! What's that, you say? It's a different way to think about learning challenges that plague B2B SaaS companies working to deliver effective learning experiences. They explore how organizations can bridge the gap between small business (SMB) and Enterprise customers, transforming traditional training approaches into adaptive, personalized learning journeys. Key Takeaways: The Two-Hump Problem: Different learning needs for SMB and enterprise customers Customer education is more than training - it's about driving behavioral change Digital experiences are crucial, but they must be high-quality and tailored Change management involves three key stages: 1. Awareness and desire 2. Knowledge and ability 3. Continuous reinforcement Traditional training models are outdated in the fast-changing SaaS landscape Platforms like Brainstorm are revolutionizing how companies deliver personalized learning Success metrics should focus on future value anticipation, not just immediate training completion Empowering customers to own their learning journey is critical for long-term success We also discuss a 4-square (Eisenhower Matrix) model in this talk. Here's an image to help visually demonstrate the vectors between self-directed and structured learning and how they apply to the spectrum of business, from SMB to Enterprise.

In this episode of the CELab podcast, host Dave Derington sits down with Casey Izzo from Bionic Advertising Systems to unpack an extraordinary journey of digital transformation. Learn how a small team turned their high-touch CSM-led software training into an accessible, scaled digital success experience. Casey shares her team's remarkable achievement of developing a comprehensive academy with nearly 100 videos in months, using innovative tools like Synthesia for AI-powered narration and strategic content design, Camtasia for editing, Wistia for hosting, and Gainsight to bring it all together. Even more, with such a small team they leveraged content creation expertise through Greenmusk to accelerate delivery. The result? Over 150 certifications issued, dramatically reduced training overhead, and a learning platform that serves both customers and industry professionals. Key Insights: How to Build an Enterprise-Level Academy with Limited Resources Leveraging AI and Smart Tools to Dramatically Reduce Training Time Transforming Customer Onboarding from Live Sessions to Strategic 30-Minute Meetings Creating a Learning Platform That Attracts Users Beyond Your Customer Base Practical Strategies for Making Complex Software Training Engaging and Accessible Whether you're a Customer Success leader, a Training Professional, or tech innovator, this episode offers a blueprint for scaling education without scaling complexity. Listen now and transform your approach to customer learning!

This episode is a "feed drop" or crossover episode featuring Adam Avramescu and Dee Kapila's new show - CXetera! As our network grows, we will often feature other shows where you can go and continue your learning journey. This is a topic that's relatable to all of us in the field of Customer Education: Should Customer Success Managers (CSMs) should be responsible for customer training? In this episode, Adam and Dee explore the complexities of training delivery across different company stages and contexts. Top 3 Insights: Training Expertise Matters: Not all CSMs have the skills to deliver effective training. Professional trainers bring specialized learning design expertise that ensures consistent, high-quality educational experiences. Balancing Efficiency and Customer Experience: Companies should carefully evaluate their training approach, considering both operational efficiency and customer outcomes. The goal is to right-size training offerings that meet customer needs without overextending resources. Contextual Training Strategy: Training approaches should adapt based on company maturity, product complexity, and market context. Early-stage companies might rely on CSMs, while mature organizations benefit from dedicated training teams and scalable educational programs. The discussion emphasizes that while CSMs play a crucial role in customer success, specialized training is often best handled by professionals who can deliver consistent, high-quality learning experiences. As our market continues to grow and change, it's crucial for us to keep on top of emerging trends. Make sure you check out and subscribe to the CXetera substack and check out the show on iTunes, Spotify, and all the other places where you catch your pods!

In this episode of CELab, we engage in a comprehensive discussion with Brett Strauss and Dan Boyle about the intricacies of customer education and partner training. They explore the evolution of NetExam, the importance of access management, and the role of AI in enhancing training experiences. The conversation delves into best practices for creating effective training programs, the significance of informal learning, and the necessity of building trust with partners. The episode emphasizes the need for simplicity and consistency in training while also addressing the complexities of managing partner relationships and ensuring successful customer outcomes. Highlights: Partner training is essential for scaling customer education. NetExam evolved from a content management system to a specialized LMS for partner training. Building trust with partners is crucial for successful training programs. AI can enhance training by analyzing performance and providing feedback. Informal learning should be recognized and credited in training programs. Training should be simple and accessible to partners. Certification requirements should be balanced to avoid overwhelming partners. Custom learning paths can enhance the training experience. Measuring success should go beyond just certification completion. The relationship with partners should be nurtured from day one.

In this conversation, Adam Avramescu and Elli Neald discuss the evolution of customer education and support through the implementation of AI chatbots. They explore the challenges faced in the "old-school" customer support models, the transition to an AI-first strategy, and the ongoing optimization efforts that have led to significant improvements in resolution rates and customer satisfaction. Ellie shares insights on the importance of testing, data sources, and proactive education in enhancing the customer experience. Key Takeaways from this episode: The transition to AI can significantly improve resolution rates. Content maintenance is a major challenge in customer support. Testing and iteration are crucial for successful AI implementation. Proactive education can enhance customer experience and product adoption. AI chatbots can serve as growth levers rather than just cost centers. Understanding customer needs is key to effective support strategies. Data architecture plays a vital role in AI chatbot performance. Regular optimization is necessary to maintain high customer satisfaction. Engaging with support teams helps identify areas for improvement. AI can personalize responses based on user-specific data.

In this special 150th episode, Adam Avramescu and Dave Derington reflect on their journeys in customer education and the evolving nature of the field. They explore the fluidity of customer education roles, noting that there is no single, universal "playbook" that applies across all organizations. Dave Derington shares insights from his new role as Senior Manager of Learning Solutions and Programs at Atlassian, a large, mature enterprise. What we've learned over the years is that what we call Customer Education has no discrete start or end. Universally, we focus on: The challenges and opportunities of scaling learning programs to support millions of users, The importance of integrating community and learning initiatives The strategic approaches required to drive adoption and engagement within complex, distributed organizations. The episode offers a unique perspective on the evolving landscape of customer education and the innovative ways leading companies are tackling the complexities of learning at scale. Listen in and let us know your thoughts!