Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) welcomes Trevor Bacon, Chief Executive Officer of Parcl and Parcl Labs, to examine how real-time real estate data and market-based signals are changing the way housing markets are interpreted. Drawing on financial-market frameworks applied to residential real estate, Trevor explains why traditional pricing indexes often lag reality and how alternative signals—like sentiment and probability—can offer earlier insight. The conversation invites builders and housing leaders to think more critically about timing, risk, and how market narratives are formed.Key ThemesReal-Time Pricing vs. Backward-Looking Housing Data* Most housing data describes where the market was, not where risk and opportunity are forming next* If pricing moves faster than reporting, how many decisions are already outdated by the time they’re made?* Treating housing like a slow-moving asset may be the most dangerous assumption builders still holdPrediction Markets and the Future of Market Signals* Markets reveal more truth when people put capital behind beliefs, not opinions* What would change if builders watched probability and sentiment instead of headlines and forecasts?* The next competitive advantage may come from understanding expectations, not just transactionsFollow Trevor, Parcel Labs, and Learn More* Trevor Bacon (https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-bacon-1a81b221/) on LinkedIn* Jason Lewris (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonlewris/) on LinkedIn* Tampa's Hidden Supply Pipeline: Land Banking Fuels Mounting Market Pressure (https://app.parcllabs.com/articles/research/tampas-hidden-supply-pipeline-land-banking-fuels-mounting-market-pressure)

Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/), Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/), and Caroline Collard (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/caroline-collard/) discuss end of year plans, trends, and truths. From major brands’ flops to risky tactics built on good science, the team helps marketers chart a path through end of year planning that leans into what works and away from fads that will only dilute brand reputation in the year ahead.Story Time* Beth – With costs top of mind, buyers need a vision before they’ll fall in love with a home* Caroline – Write down your goals now before the year ahead buries them in busy-ness* Julie – Goldilocks-ing content plans for 2026: finding the just-right-ness between structure and flexibilityIn the News* What View/Save Ratios Reveal About Buyer Engagement on Real Estate Portals (https://truelist.com/resources/what-view-save-ratios-reveal-about-buyer-engagement-on-real-estate-portals)* McDonald’s Pulls Down AI-Generated Holiday Ad After Deluge of Mockery (https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/mcdonalds-ai-generated-commercial)* Brands look to experiential marketing as antidote to AI slop, digital fatigue (https://digiday.com/marketing/brands-look-to-experiential-marketing-as-antidote-to-ai-slop-digital-fatigue/)* Negativity Bias: Why Customers Don’t Want Anything To Do With You (And What To Do About It) (https://www.searchenginejournal.com/negativity-bias-why-customers-dont-want-anything-to-do-with-you/560574/)* Google updates links in AI Mode and expands Web Guide test in all tab (https://searchengineland.com/google-updates-links-in-ai-mode-and-expands-web-guide-test-in-all-tab-465976)

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) welcome a very special guest into the podcast studio. Caroline Collard (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/caroline-collard/) is Do You Convert’s newest Marketing Coach, manages the Marketing Strategist team, and is lauded as DYC’s digital strategy secret weapon. With Caroline’s keen perspective in the mix, the team discusses end-of-year campaigns, video trends, 2026 market forecasts, and whether OpenAI goes from red to dead as Google surges ahead. From consumer data use tactics to the trust gained from putting in real work, they share insights on the latest marketing trends and updates, giving homebuilder marketers room to reflect on the strength of their own consumer-facing signals and strategies headed into 2026.Story Time* Caroline – Spotify Wrapped data assumptions: the good, the bad, and the funny* Jackie – Brand promos are wearing out their holiday welcome in Jackie’s text messages* Kevin – Kevin yearns for signals of effort that grow weaker as simulated intelligence replaces effortful thinkingIn the News* OpenAI hits pause on ChatGPT ads as CEO declares a ‘code red’ (https://searchengineland.com/openai-code-red-pause-chatgpt-ads-465542)* Publishers turn to vertical video to compete with creators and grow ad revenue in 2026 (https://digiday.com/media/media-briefing-publishers-turn-to-vertical-video-to-compete-with-creators-and-grow-ad-revenue-in-2026/)* Zillow economists say the housing market will warm up in 2026, with more sales and modest price growth (https://zillow.mediaroom.com/2025-12-04-Zillow-economists-say-the-housing-market-will-warm-up-in-2026,-with-more-sales-and-modest-price-growth)

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/) to discuss the delta between a booming business and simply sending too-busy signals to buyers. The team reflects on why built-in distance through the use of automation and chatbots is bad for business.If solving for attribution headaches, automation concerns, and leveraging limited budget across the right platforms are on your end of year to-do list, this episode will help reveal what matters most to your buyers right now.Special Announcements* Just a couple seats left for January’s Market Proof Marketing Academy (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) - don’t wait until it’s too late to save your spot!* If you manage Online Sales too, OSA (https://onlinesales.doyouconvert.com/sales-academy/) and OSAL are coming up in early 2026 too. Check them out today!Story Time* Beth – Tales from the home-search front: back-in-market woes made worse by AI search* Julie – Doorbusters aren’t busting like they used to, but homebuilder marketers can create urgency where retail lost the plot* Kevin – Are you sure you can’t respond to everyone who wants to do business with you?In the News* Sellers are taking their homes off the market at the fastest pace in nearly a decade (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/25/home-sellers-delisting-redfin.html)* Pew: 84% Of Adults Use YouTube As Platform Growth Continues (https://www.searchenginejournal.com/pew-84-of-adults-use-youtube-as-platform-growth-continues/561633/)* The Pinball Customer Journey Has Replaced the Marketing Funnel (https://sparktoro.com/blog/the-pinball-customer-journey-has-replaced-the-marketing-funnel/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rss_feed)

Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) joins Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/) on this special Thanksgiving edition to tackle the challenges marketers face in a world overflowing with information and AI slop.From breaking out of narrow thinking to sparking authentic connections with your audience, they share practical ways to transform your marketing by starting with the underlying thoughts that ultimately shape strategy. Learn how to stand out, ignite that spark, and stay ahead before an avalanche of AI noise drowns out your message.Story Time* Beth - Can a brain scientist teach marketers how to avoid categorical thinking traps?* Julie - A school tour sheds light on building a great onsite experienceIn the News* Meta's AI tools are going rogue and churning out some very strange ads (https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-ai-generating-bizarre-ads-advantage-plus-2025-10)* Adobe to buy Semrush for $1.9 billion (https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/19/adobe-to-buy-semrush-for-1-9-billion/)* As AI slop spreads on social media, brands have lessons to learn (https://www.thecurrent.com/marketing-strategy-slop-social-media-brands-lessons-learn-ai)

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/), Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/), and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) discuss why great marketing is less about the message and more about the moment. From anniversaries to fishing lures to funnel metrics, the takeaway is the same: your audience determines your strategy. The right nuance can change everything.Special Announcements* Market Proof Marketing Academy 2026 (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) enrollment is nearly full. With fresh curriculum and expanded expert sessions, grab your spot now.Story Time* Julie - Who cares about 100 years? And how? And why?* Jackie - An apparent a-fish-ionado, Jackie shares how her lure strategy relates to changing bait in digital advertising * Kevin - Funneling more of nothing (good) still gets you nothingIn the News* ChatGPT Ads Are Coming — and They Won’t Look Like Google Ads (https://searchengineland.com/chatgpt-ads-coming-some-point-464388)* The Starbucks “Bearista” Cup Craze: When Product Drops Become Cultural Events (https://news.designrush.com/starbucks-bearista-cup-effect-resale-boom-scarcity-marketing)* Meta to launch no-ads subscriptions in the UK (https://searchengineland.com/meta-no-ads-subscriptions-uk-462622)

Host Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski in the studio to discuss technology, change, and the inevitability of pain. Kevin shares cogent examples (like choosing not to participate in a bad economy through a 500% tip) to illuminate counterintuitive mindset moves to keep builders moving forward. From the struggles that shape resilience to the real story of search data for builders, this episode is a reminder that you don’t have to internalize the valley, or the narrative.Story Time* Jackie – Pain points and growth spurts look the same in retrospect* Kevin – If seemingly constant change has you reaching for more control, choose focus over fakesIn the News* Post to Google Business Profiles: An Untapped Realm in the Building Industry (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/posting-to-google-business-profiles-an-untapped-realm-in-the-building-industry/)* October 2025 Monthly Housing Market Trends (https://www.realtor.com/research/october-2025-data/#balance)* Scams at Scale (https://seths.blog/2025/10/scams-at-scale/)* State of Search Q3 2025 (https://doyouconvert.slack.com/files/U015D0VJ7FX/F09Q184J1K9/datos_search_q32025.pdf)

Nick Aufenkamp, founder of DIY Home Buyer Academy, joins Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) to explore how transparency, data, and evolving buyer agency are rewriting the rules of real estate. Kevin and Nick share surprising takes on the current and future state of the Zillow + ChatGPT partnership. From start to finish, this episode is brimming with insights on what happens when buyers start leading the process themselves.AI & the Mirror Effect* Tech is giving us a mirror; turn it into a map* New tools are revealing what buyers actually trust and why* Nick’s own emotional arc with Zillow’s ChatGPT experiment: from frustration to fascinationAgency After the NAR Settlement* The settlement flipped on the lights, yet shadows from the past still linger* Why buyers now want (and expect) more control in every transaction* How builders can back empowered buyers without burning agent bridgesFollow Nick on LinkedIn and Youtube:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaufenkamp/)https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer (https://www.youtube.com/@DIYHomebuyer)

Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) joins Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) to explore what today’s challenges can teach marketers about grit, growth, and grace. From marketing merit badges to limiting factors, they discuss the perspective and strategy builders need to finish the year strong.Special Announcements* Market Proof Marketing Academy 2026 (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) is open for registration! A high-energy, hands-on virtual event designed to fast-track marketing mastery for homebuilder marketers. Space is limited - save your spot before it’s gone.Story Time* Beth – Redefining wins beyond sales and measuring momentum that moves the business forward* Jackie – Three quotes to keep every recovering perfectionist grounded and thriving* Julie – Leadership means being the calm in Q4In the News* https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/ (https://www.doyouconvert.com/blog/the-limiting-factor-to-sales-results/)* Zillow Pulls Matterport Tours from Listings (Blames CoStar) (https://www.realestatenews.com/2025/10/20/zillow-pulls-matterport-tours-from-listings-blames-costar)* 10 Surprising Takeaways from the Minds of Today’s Homebuyer  (https://www.builderonline.com/builder-100/marketing-sales/10-surprising-takeaways-from-the-minds-of-todays-homebuyers)* Google Officially Shuts Down Privacy Sandbox  (https://searchengineland.com/google-officially-shuts-down-privacy-sandbox-463561)

On this bonus episode, Qadra Evans, Director of Industry & Partner Engagement at Zillow, joins host Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) for a look inside how one of the most-used housing platforms is adjusting to new demands in buyer behavior, builder engagement, and affordability. This conversation breaks down what’s evolving and how builders can interpret the signals.Tools That Reflect the Moment* From dream browsing to financial fit: affordability filters get real* Listings trends are shifting from static to cinematic (and the scroll times prove it)Signals from the Buyer Side* The new new construction buyer: Gen Z (and their parents)* Which considerations are rising fast in buyer decision-making?

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) for conversations on ChatGPT considerations, Sora’s impact, shutdown shockwaves, and Halloween costumes. Whether you love or hate the rapid pace of change lately, this episode dives into the major shifts shaping the market and more.Special announcementsInterest in the January Market Proof Marketing Academy (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) is at an all-time high, with a record number of people on the list. Tickets go live this week, so make sure to grab your spot before it’s full! You can find out at the link above.Key Topics* OpenAI’s newest feature - Is the “app within the app” ahead of its time or an empty gimmick?* A sea of content - Questioning the repercussions of AI’s explosive growth in video content creation* Furloaned - How to prepare for the extended consequences of the current government shutdownListen in and send us your thoughts and questions. 

Fresh from the Summit, Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) sits down with Rachel Spaugh (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/rachel-spaugh/) for Office Hours to debrief on what stood out most. From how AI is reshaping content to how marketers can hand off great ideas to sales without losing trust, this one’s all about clarity, compression, and exerting creative control without chaos.When More Isn’t Better* Faster isn’t smarter when the message is empty* Real examples from Kevin and Rachel reveal why less content often hits harderHolding Tension and Building Trust* Every email is a promise worth keeping* The smartest marketers surface friction early, turning lessons into loyalty

Host Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) to unpack the newest AI experiments, marketing shifts, and growth mindsets shaping 2026 and beyond. From Meta’s surreal new playground to the delicate relationship between builder breakthroughs and removing “limiting factors,” this episode looks at how curiosity and clarity drive progress, even when tech or timelines get in the way. Special AnnouncementsThe next Market Proof Marketing Academy (https://marketing.doyouconvert.com/academy/) is just around the corner, but the waitlist is already almost full! If you want in on this unique opportunity to learn from DYC’s best and brightest - regardless of whether your builder works with Do You Convert - this is your chance. Seize the moment before the last few spots are gone.Key Topics Discussed* Does the future belong to fewer, bigger players?* Love the growth leaps, but remember to value every step* Fever dream frontiers - is Meta wooing creators or consumers?* Weighing the privacy costs of the “customized everything” digital dreamIn the News* Compass to acquire Anywhere, creating world's largest brokerage* Meta "Vibes" is released - will anyone care?* Advertising in 2030

In this solo episode, Kevin Oakley takes you inside the room at a recent ULI panel. Builders, sales leaders, and consultants gathered to debate the toughest questions facing the industry, and Kevin is pulling back the curtain to share exactly what he was asked and how he answered.Here are the five big questions he tackled:* Beyond discounts: what really drives buyer traffic?* Online sales: speed or personalization?* Resale vs. new: who wins when rates drop?* The holy grail: is it possible to achieve volume and margin?* 2026: what’s ahead for builders?Listen in for unfiltered answers that challenge assumptions, spotlight bold strategies, and point to the realities shaping the immediate future of homebuilding.

Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) and Rachel Spaugh (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/rachel-spaugh/) are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.Tune in to learn* How your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using it* Why objections aren’t the problem you think they are* Hear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership LessonsListeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit (https://www.onlinesalessummit.com/) in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.Key Topics* Growth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heart* Stay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recession* Find Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to discuss diagnosing hidden community issues, aligning the whole team around intent, and how to nail messaging and positioning in a shifting market. From long-form articles around behavior data to hot takes on who actually uses Bing, this one is sure to have you thinking about familiar topics in new ways. Story Time* Jackie - The problems that are hidden, but obvious once you see them* Julie - Sometimes the most inspiring thing you can do is ten minutes of nothing* Beth - Ground your playbook in intent, then coordinate the plays from thereIn the News* New Homes are Now Nearly 20k Cheaper Than Existing Homes* The Behavioral Data You Need to Improve Your User's Search Journey* Angry and disappointed, if not surprised: The ad industry reacts to the Google search remedies ruling 

In this episode, Kevin Oakley (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/kevin-oakley/) joins Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) and Beth Russell (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/beth-russell/) in the studio to reflect on the fine lines between lying and storytelling in marketing, the attribution lies you must know (so you can avoid them), and how creatives in our industry are inspiring the DYC marketing team.Listen closely - this short episode packs in some big questions and even bigger topics in today's ai-driven digital marketing landscape.Story Time* Beth - finding secondhand joy in watching others do creative work* Jackie - building your own breadcrumbs if you're doing something BIG* Kevin - the inherent conflict between truth and storytelling at the heart of being a marketerIn the News* GEO x local SEO: What it means for the future of discovery (https://searchengineland.com/geo-local-seo-future-discovery-460983)

In this episode, Julie Jarnagin (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/julie-jarnagin/) and Jackie Lipinski (https://www.doyouconvert.com/team/jackie-lipinski/) reflect on all things end-of-year mindset, creative messaging, and the joys of not getting eaten by bears. As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.Special AnnouncementsThe Online Sales and Marketing Summit (https://www.onlinesalessummit.com/) is close to full for 2025. If you haven’t gotten your ticket yet, save your seat (and hotel room!) before they’re sold out.Zoom Out* If weekly dips are spooking you, step back.* Step back, but fall forward: the holidays are coming.Take a Hike* Get away from the desk - inspiration is waiting in new places* Love your limits - limitations can produce the best creative workIn the News* Home Purchases Are Getting Canceled at a Record Rates (https://www.redfin.com/news/home-purchase-cancellations-july-2025/)* Move-Now Buyers Are Still Driving Sales. Are You Ready? (https://www.thebuildersdaily.com/move-now-buyers-are-still-driving-sales-are-you-ready/)

In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens. From illuminating marriage metaphors to lessons from masterminding pop stars (pssst - we hear there may be a TS12 listening party in Julie's room at Summit?), the crew delves deep into all the ways rethinking your cross-departmental steps can streamline your success.Special AnnouncementsThe Online Sales & Marketing Summit (www.onlinesalessummit.com) registration is closing soon - if it doesn't sell out first! Late-comers, consider this the official last call to secure your ticket. Story Time* Beth - Digging deep on internal attribution to give marketing, online sales, and onsite sales each the credit they're due* Julie - Taking common ideas, but executing on them uncommonly well, is what really moves the needle* Kevin - Building a waterfall of urgency through marketing and sales collaboration In The News* Instagram Adds TikTok Style Repost Feature for Reels (https://mashable.com/article/instagram-reels-repost-feature-like-tiktok)* Market Survey: It's a Whole New Housing Market (https://brightmls.com/article/market-survey-its-a-whole-new-housing-market)* Homebuyer Outlook from Zonda (https://zondahome.com/products/data-intelligence/homebuyer-outlook/?utm_source=builderonline&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=homebuyer_outlook_leads&utm_content=news_article)