After therapy, I hosted a book club for Permission to Come Home. One sentence in that book mentioned immigrants, first gen, second gen, AND international transnational adoptees. They included me in their book. I realized this podcast is my way of giving back. Also, I'm pretty social media illiterate and I need help finding people who care about these stories.

I'm a heritage learner, but a different type of heritage learner. I didn't speak Chinese growing up. Yesterday I met a mother whose adopted daughter studied Mandarin for 10 years and gave up. When I started this journey, I knew almost all Chinese adoptees give up, maybe 99%. I know there are a lot of barriers to learning Mandarin, and I keep meeting more heritage learners who share their own struggles. It breaks my heart and I want to help however I can.

Learning Mandarin isn't necessarily a straight path to fluency, but more a winding path. After a year of intense immersion, and 5 interviews with fellow learners, I'm starting to connect the dots. Why some people learning Chinese burn out while others sustain decades-long journeys. The difference might not be discipline or talent, but finding the hidden treats along the way that continue to fuel your motivation. This episode is me thinking out loud at 2am.

Interviewing Tom changed my life. He told me when he talks to this one language partner, it felt like therapy. Their friendship was deepening and it happened to be in Chinese. Of course, it sounds obvious that language should serve relationships, not the other way around. But as students drowning in flashcards, textbooks, and homework, everything in Mandarin feels hard, even making friends at language meetups. I used to tell people that I came to Taiwan to continue learning and practicing Mandarin, but after talking to Tom, I realized what I am doing here is actually a lot more and a lot deeper than just language practice.

Tom has been on a 13 year Mandarin journey. He built his own app, has given business presentations in Chinese, but surprisingly, isn't trying to chase fluency. He actually isn't trying to get anywhere at all. After 1000 days of daily character practice (even with a broken ankle), he discovered the secret: use Chinese to get to friendships, don't use friends to get to Chinese. I ask Tom about what it means to remove the destination from language learning, and how the joy of human connection, not perfect study methods, kept him going for 13 years.

Find Tom's app at charactermatrix.com (iOS/Android) and his YouTube channel @squattingtaiwan.

Anliyang (from Episode 3) connected me with Tom, another app builder learning Mandarin. I was curious what he thought was broken about existing apps that he had to build his own. I also wanted to hear his story, since I hadn't met someone who'd been learning Chinese for 13 years. I was excited and nervous.

Massey streams beginner-intermediate Chinese to strangers 2 hours nightly. He's not fluent after a year. But talent agents are calling. We talk about how imperfection beats waiting until you're ready.

Massey streams beginner-intermediate Chinese to strangers 2 hours a day. He's not fluent after a year. But talent agents are calling. We talk about how imperfection beats waiting until you're ready.

Find him on TikTok: @studentmassey

What's the wildest method you've heard for learning Chinese? I met Massey. I was like, I need this guy to come on my podcast...

Wujinda (武進達) figured out what wasn't working and he changed it. Four months of isolation after class? Got a restaurant job. Simple as that. If he can do it, I can do it.

Wujinda (武進達) spent four months barely speaking to anyone in Taiwan. Then he found where real Chinese learning happens - hint: it's not in classrooms. My first interview in 100% Mandarin Chinese. Raw and unedited, errors in all.

Wujinda (武進達) asked if he could be on my podcast five times. I finally said yes, even if it meant doing it entirely in Chinese...

Day one in Taipei. Instead of coding my app, I spent the day seeking human connection. A raw confession about the isolation of language immersion and why I needed an emotional support day.

Nicolas's slow approach made me question my aggressive timeline. I want fluency in two years, but what if that pressure is actually holding me back?

Nicolas from France learned every Chinese character by hand, stroke by stroke. After a panic attack forced him to slow down, he discovered why perfectionism might be killing your language learning. We talk about burnout, the SMART framework, and why you need to forget words seven times to truly learn them.

I meet Nicolas spontaneously at a language exchange with zero preparation. Sometimes the best interviews happen when you don't know what you're walking into.

Processing what Aliyang's story reveals about the intermediate plateau and why some questions are more important than the answers. When a good interview leaves you wanting to dig deeper.

Anliyang spent 5+ years studying Mandarin in Taiwan but hit a plateau. His honest take on why living in a Chinese-speaking country doesn't automatically lead to fluency - and the gap between ordering coffee and real conversations.

How my desperate message to 850+ strangers across two language groups led to one response that launched this entire podcast. Sometimes the most important connections happen by chance.

I'm a Chinese adoptee who couldn't speak Mandarin when I first returned to China. After deciding to learn the language, I attended a conference and met zero adoptees who had become fluent - that's when I realized how hard this would be. Twelve months later, I'm conversational but terrified of losing it all when I return to America.