Discovery is very important - but it's poorly understood what exactly you should be looking for in the first moments of a sales call and founders almost always screw it up. This leads to a confused customer being grilled with random questions and the founder struggling to connect with the customer and generate interest in their product (the wrong way to think about it).
In this episode, Rob discusses how to properly run demand discovery at the start of a call - using the PULL framework and a simple process that will immediately improve the quality of your calls.
Rob's book "The Power of Pull" is now available for pre-order! https://amzn.to/48KC1yv
PSA - next PMF Camp starts in Feb. More info on how to join here: www.robsnyder.org under "Learn more and get started"
Highly recommend reading this week's Substacak as the language around supply and demand is precise: LINK
Rob Snyder dives into how to think about Demand as it relates to AI - using both historical (Ford) and contemporary (Jump, Loveable, AI SDRs) examples.
This convo should be helpful for entrepreneurs, investors and marketers thinking about AI, product positioning, categories, identifying AI-related demand.
Info and work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org
If you wonder if "PULL" is relevant for your business ("But I sell into enterprise!" "I'm in B2C!" "I sell hardware!" ... " so PULL doesn't apply"), this week's conversation is meant for you.
Rob and RC discuss some common examples of selling into large businesses / deep tech / hardware / B2C from a "PULL" perspective.
Leave comments with questions for upcoming Substacks or to address in future podcast episodes.
This week's post: "PULL is Everywhere" on Rob's Substack: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
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Rob's website: www.robsnyder.org
Connect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/
Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
PULL (Project-Unavoidable-Looking for options-encountering Limitation) is the key concept that founders need to understand to sell and find PMF.
Rob has refreshed his definitions and this conversation dives into topics like:
Highly recommend the blog post and the Jump blog:
----Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Rob and RC dive into three common (and self destructive) sales pathologies that Rob sees in founders:
As Rob explains, each of these pathologies are wrong because they misunderstand demand. And this episode dives into each, how to diagnose, and how to course correct yourself.
Full Substack post (free): LINK
----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Blog post: "Strict Productivity" on https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org
Rob and RC discuss productivity based on a foundational understanding of *what is a startup* which is the necessary foundation for doing productive things. Conversation addresses the constraint-theory approach to understanding your startup, identifying bottlenecks, and practical ways Rob sees great founders tackling bottlenecks. Also get into why there is so much performative LARPing in startup-world.
----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Full Substack post "Customer Success": https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Work with Rob: Info
Rob's Miro: https://bit.ly/4q9JiP3
Rob and RC focus on the "post-sell" part of PMF in this convo - customer success and retention. They discuss Rob's thinking on how to define success, what to focus on, and why so many founders are focused on the wrong metrics or doing customer success wrong ("Throwing the product over the wall"). They also discuss goblin mode, and practical steps for founders who want to improve customer success and retention.
----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Read "The Divine Lever" in Rob's newsletter: https://howtogrow.substack.com
November Bootcamp info: LINK
Rob and RC explore one of Rob's newest ideas - "The Divine Lever" - with its dual elements of "a causal lever" and "divine / objectively good." They discuss how these elements interact, why they interact in a way that creates valuable businesses, and how to think about each in the context of your startup.
Mailbags toward the end of the episode:
- How to know when to push through and when to give up?
- Does it necessarily have to be true that your startup is the only one that can solve the problem for the customer?
Leave a comment with topics you'd like us to cover in upcoming podcasts!
----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Rob and RC dig into what you should do when you have lukewarm demand or something isn't working quite like it should and you aren't sure why. Includes pragmatic discussion of how to do a Demand Audit, and the difference between several "Demand problems" and "Execution problems" (the tl;dr - your problem might not be that you don't have Demand).
Links
----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Full post on Rob's Substack: LINK (Post: "Force against the status quo")
Info on working with Rob: LINK
Rob has sharpened his theory on what exactly is demand for startups. Rob and RC dive into this, exploring how Demand behaves like a "Force against the status quo" - which has both magnitude (how much the customer wants change) and direction (what shape they want).
This theory builds on Rob's Demand, Supply and PULL frameworks - and is helpful especially for founders struggling with lukewarm demand, difficulty closing deals, mixed messages from customers, demos, outbound, etc.
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Rob's website: https://www.robsnyder.org
Rob's Substack: LINK
*Kind of hilarious retraction*: Rob's wife let him know they use Huggies, not Pampers.
Substack post: Bend the world to fit demand
More about Rob's November bootcamp: GOOGLE DOC
Rob and RC dive into the concept of Supply today (mostly "product" focused), specifically taking the approach of where does supply originate? The conversation goes into how supply should take shape, how to understand demand before developing supply, what to do if you already have supply that you're trying to sell, and, of course, Pampers diapers.
---Connect on LinkedIn w/ Rob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights w/ Rob: https://howtogrow.substack.com/ More about Rob / work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org#PMF #B2BSales #VC #Startup #VentureCapital #Founderledsales
This week's newsletter: "What is your operating philosophy?"
Rob's Substack: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Rob's "Unifying Theory of Startups" Miro board: LINK Rob and RC jump into the concept of the "Founder Operating Philosophy" - discussing different types of operating philosophies, what different operating philosophies lead to, and ways to diagnose what your operating philosophy. Also discuss how to develop a "Demand-oriented" operating philosophy. The second part of the convo is about Rob's "Unifying Theory of Startups" - Rob's developing thesis of what a startup is and how it works. He's open-sourced this theory, and recommend visitng the newsletter and Miro to check it out. ----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Link to Rob's newsletter: https://howtogrow.substack.com
This week's newsletter: "Pipeline mega-post"
Rob and RC dive into one of Rob's least favorite, but most in-demand topics: pipeline. Conversation covers how to get to 5-10 calls per week even before you have a product, how to craft outbound that people don't hate, and when to convert to a 'toll-booth' approach.
----Rob's website: www.robsnyder.orgConnect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1 Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com
Blog post on Rob's Substack: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
In this episode, Rob digs into the difference between Conjuring Demand (where a founder has an idea of how the world should work) vs. Finding Demand (where buyers are trying to accomplish something and pull products that help them solve that). He touches his perspective on startups like Clay and Drift, and how he takes a "Demand"-based perspective to think about startups from outside-in (or in pitch decks).
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Rob's website: www.robsnyder.org
Connect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/
Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Basecamp video (highly recommend) - LINK
This newsletter, "How to build the 'right' product": https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Rob and RC dig into feature requests to better understand the distinction between Supply and Demand, including how supply masquerades as demand in customer feature requests, using a fantastic video from Basecamp leaders Ryan and Chris. This discussion covers topics including:
- How to know if a customer is talking about Supply and Demand
- How to get the right insights from customers to develop the right supply for their demand
- Building organizations that incorporate Supply and Demand thinking
- Applying this thinking in other parts of the startup journey (including sales)
- Mailbag about pre-sell tactics
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Connect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/
Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
About Rob: https://www.robsnyder.org
#PMF #B2BSales #VC #Startup #VentureCapital #Founderledsales
This week's newsletter "The Physics of Sales pt 2": LINK
Previous newsletter: "The Physics of Sales": LINK
This week, RC and Rob continue last week's conversation about sales and the difference between a BUYER-PULL and SELLER-PUSH approach, including breaking down each step of the sales process and what the ideal "Buyer-Pull" approach looks like at:
Pipeline --> Call 1 --> Call 2 to close --> Customer onboarding and success.
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Connect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/
Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/
Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org
#PMF #B2BSales #VC #Startup #VentureCapital #Founderledsales
Newsletter post: The Physics of Sales
Rob and RC explore the fundamental differences between the "seller-push" approach to sales and the "buyer-pull" approach. They discuss the common misconceptions surrounding sales strategies, and debunk the nonsense that exists out there with sales hacks and approaches that pretend to be able to "create" demand where there is none. The dialogue highlights practical advice for founders on how to align their products with actual customer demand, improve sales conversations, and navigate competitive environments effectively. The conversation includes steps that founders can take today to move toward a "buyer-pull" mentality in sales.
00:00 Introduction to Podcasting Journey
01:04 Understanding Demand vs. Supply in Sales
02:20 The Concept of Demand in Product Development
06:04 Defining Demand and Supply
07:42 Seller Push vs. Buyer Pull Dynamics
14:36 The Power of Buyer Pull
20:01 The Experience of Sales Conversations
22:08 Self-Diagnostics for Sales Approaches
25:56 Navigating Competitive Environments
30:02 Key Takeaways from the Discussion
Connect on LinkedIn w/ Rob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights w/ Rob: https://howtogrow.substack.com/ Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org
Link to blog post "Could work vs. Weird if it didn't work": LINK
Rob and RC dive into the difference between a 'could work' mindset and a 'would be weird if it didn't work' approach. We touch practical applications of this concept in new product development, approach to sales, approach to outbound, hiring and communicating with investors.
00:00 Introduction
02:01 Exploring Product Market Fit
08:54 Minimizing Failure in Startups
11:45 The 'Could Work' vs. 'Would Be Weird If It Didn't' Approach
13:41 Practical Applications of the Framework
17:24 Identifying Ideal Customers
19:04 Hiring and Fundraising Strategies
21:45 Mailbag
----Connect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: LINK Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/ Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org#PMF #B2BSales #VC #Startup #VentureCapital #Founderledsales
Link to blog post: https://bit.ly/3Hn3rPZ
Rob Snyder discusses the 4 parts to a "Sales Sprint", including how to execute each element (PULL hypothesis, schedule 5 sales calls, execute 5 sales calls, and analyze and refine hypothesis).
Convo includes examples of how this works "in real life" and what the goals of each step are and tactics you can apply.If you'd like to do a sales sprint supported by Rob, visit www.robsnyder.org for more info and to book 15 min to discuss w/ Rob.
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Weekly founder Substack insights
Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org
#PMF #B2BSales #VC #Startup #VentureCapital #Founderledsales
Link to blog postSummary: Rob Snyder delves into the complexities of startup fundamentals, exploring how founders can effectively identify demand, navigate the startup landscape, and utilize frameworks like the pull framework to ensure their products meet real customer needs. They discuss the importance of understanding where ideas come from, the role of design partners, and practical steps for founders to validate their hypotheses and achieve customer retention. The dialogue emphasizes the need for founders to engage directly with their target market to uncover genuine demand and avoid common pitfalls in the startup journey.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Context02:06 Understanding Startup Fundamentals04:05 Where Do Ideas Come From?05:52 The Search for Demand09:46 The Pull Framework Explained13:54 Identifying Unavoidable Projects17:58 Real-Life Examples of Demand21:42 The Role of Discovery Interviews28:06 The Founder Mindset: Understanding Customer Needs32:47 Navigating Waves and Dams in Startups38:56 Design Partnerships: The Pitfalls and Realities45:49 Practical Steps for Founders: Testing Hypotheses----Connect w/ Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsnyder1/ Weekly founder insights: https://howtogrow.substack.com/ Work with Rob: www.robsnyder.org#PMF #B2BSales #VC #Startup #VentureCapital #Founderledsales